New 2017 25hp 4 stroke efi yamaha

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scoobeb

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Anyone see the new 2017 25hp efi 4 stroke yamaha? Man what a sweet outboard. Looks very promising. It is a 432 cc engine at 126lbs which makes it the lightest engine in it's class. Yamaha finally smarten up by having a manual rope start on the electric models like they should all have in the portable class. Once I get enough money I may get a new 25hp suzuki or yamaha, now it will make my life harder now trying to pick from these 2 awesome outboards. I have the 20hp efi suzuki now and love it and may keep that forever to. The Yamaha looks like a really sweet and powerful engine. Yamaha claims it's faster and more powerful than it's 25hp 2 stroke yamaha. If so that is an extremely impressive outboard if you ask me. So anyone see it yet,watch it run on YouTube, looks like a real winner like the suzuki.
 
I forgot to add it's very reasonably priced for a yamaha. The manual start is around $3500 great price for a 25hp efi engine.
 
scoobeb said:
Yamaha claims it's faster and more powerful than it's 25hp 2 stroke yamaha. If so that is an extremely impressive outboard if you ask me. So anyone see it yet,watch it run on YouTube, looks like a real winner like the suzuki.

It should be, since it's ~60 lbs lighter than the old 4 stroke, with ran identical to the 2 stroke twin carb 25. What's the deal? Haven't seen a single new suzuki on the water out here in....gosh...at least 10 years? I mean not one. Either I'm blind, they're camouflaged really well, or they're just not out there like they should be. Dunno.

BUT...it's only 432cc. There will be a loss of torque with the lack of displacement; unless they've done something else to compensate. It's also two cylinder, and it better be a little smoother than the old 25. Now, I personally think one reason it's a smaller engine is that they reduced the displacement, which reduced the need for the slug (counterbalancer) in the crankcase of the motor, which saves quite a bit of weight. There's probably 10-15 lbs there by itself! I expected a small displacement VCT 3 cylinder with DI but while it's still not ruled out, I doubt it'll see any production.


Also, what Ive seen, is strictly Canadian or European. Nothing for the USA yet that I've seen.
 
All I know is I just sold my 25hp 2 stroke merc and bought me another 20hp suzuki, that is how much I like that engine. I know speed wise it will not run close to the same but the gas savings and peace and quiet is priceless. I had the 25hp suzuki and I sold it,I just don't need to go a million miles an hr anymore, lol. Maybe in time when my daughter grows up then I will get a bit more speed. The 20hp pushes my 1648 boat with over 1000lbs of weight at 25+ mph,not to shabby for the little engine that could,lol. I also use an 11 pitch prop, not the standard 10 pitch. It over revs with the 10.


I think the Yamaha will be a sweet engine and perform on par with all the other 25's but time will tell and it's good to wait a couple yrs to buy one just in case they need to work out any kinks. Should be a good one.
 
Also I saw them for sale already online in the USA for $3505 I believe it was. Very reasonable.
 
I hope this starts a trend with the other manufactures. The current line up of 2 and 4 stroke engines are just pigs when it comes to weight.

I will also be glad when some of the motorcycle performance levels are achievable in these lighter weight marine engines. Would love to see 30+hp at this same weight.

Rob
 
Almost every potable outboard has dropped weight significantly from yrs ago. My 20hp 4 stroke suzuki weighs in at a mere 97lbs. The suzuki 25hp 4 stroke is only 136lbs,the new efi 25hp 4 stroke yamaha is only 126lbs so things are starting to really take form across the board . The 25hp 4 strokes are coming in at or near low double digit weight comparisons for their 2 stroke counterparts.

25hp 4 stroke efi suzuki 136lbs/25hp 2 stroke suzuki is around 115-120lbs so it's within 15 to 20lbs compared to yrs ago.

25hp 4 stroke efi yamaha is at 126lbs/25hp 2 stroke yamaha is at 105 lbs, that is 21lbs difference so it's getting real close.

Merc/tohatsu 25hp needs a weight loss program at around 160lbs

Even the 25hp etec is 146lbs as a DI 2 stroke. So I think the 4 strokes are much lighter than past 4 strokes and as powerful as their 2 stroke brothers now. It's a good thing when two 4 stroke 25's are lighter than a DI etec.

Things are on the rise,technology is getting so much better. In time I believe everything will be either DI or EFI. It's coming soon.
 
scoobeb said:
NO ONE HUH?


I saw it. I even posted about on this forum, the day before you did. ;-p

The new 25 Yam is it's own block, not a detuned 30 like Merc/Tohatsu/Evinrude/Honda.

Since my hull is capped at 25 HP, I don't want to float around 30 HP of weight on the transom.



I'm trying to sort out whether the 20" shaft will be available with power tilt & trim.


Bucu excited.
 
Ebug said:
I hope this starts a trend with the other manufactures. The current line up of 2 and 4 stroke engines are just pigs when it comes to weight.

I will also be glad when some of the motorcycle performance levels are achievable in these lighter weight marine engines. Would love to see 30+hp at this same weight.

Rob


That technology is already there. The problem with that is that a motorcycle engine usually runs hot, and a lot of RPM, but rarely full RPM and FULL LOAD for hours on end. And that's why most outboards are limited to around 6000 RPM. That and keeping a gearcase alive at 15,000 RPM would be another challenge-and the noise that goes along with the RPM. I know for certain that some guys have pumped up some of the VF200's to make around 400 hp at around 8500 RPM, and they sound wicked. But they go through them often as they don't last forever at those RPM levels. They are race motors. The 2 guys I know that run them have plenty of spare blocks. And a few welded ones too.

A manufacturer could easily sell them but they would have to sell them as "no warranty" because you know somebody's gonna have to pull it off the trailer, and run it full tilt for an hour while racing their buddy's 2 stroke, blow it up, and then claim warranty. Another reason most are kept under or around 6000 RPM.

Then the exhaust problem. Most of them if you look at the exhaust, it comes out of the cylinder, then has to make a hard 180 degre turn out of the head, then another 90 degree turn go be directed down the leg and out the prop. Lots of restriction and 4 strokes don't like restriction in the exhaust. And it's all water cooled.

They can make them fast, they can make them reliable, they can make them cheap. But not all 3 together so you can only pick 2.
 
DaisyCutter said:
I'm trying to sort out whether the 20" shaft will be available with power tilt & trim.

I just ordered one with a 20" shaft with tilt/trim on Monday from a local dealer. I guess you can get the remote model with tiller (f25LC), but that doesn't come with the manual start. I ordered the F25LWTC @ 143lbs.
 
^^ You snuck in while I was typing, lol. Excellent!

FWIW, I got the confirmation, you CAN get a new Yamaha 25 HP long shaft electric start power tilt AND trim tiller.

Basically, it's the F25LWTC remote steer model with optional tiller.

I ordered an Alumacraft V-16 through Cabelas. It's a light tin boat with a floor and 20" transom. The tentative engine I chose was the Merc 4-stroke 20 HP ELHPT. It has electric start and power tilt... Which means you can't trim that engine on plane. For the little Merc, the price is $3800.

For the new Yamaha F25LWTC, it'll be $4900-5200. Cabelas man doesn't know the exact price yet.

But for the additional ~$1200, I get fuel injection, variable push button troll, legit power trim (on plane), 16 Amp alternator (vs 12 Amp), and 5 more horsepower.

I also don't suffer the 50 lb weight penalty of going to a bloated Merc/Tohatsu/Suzuki 25 HP (that carries 30 HP weight).

The Yam 25 weighs within 10 lbs of the Merc 20, for a comparably equipped model.

So I think I'm going to try the new Yamaha 25.
 
Daisycutter,when you get the 25hp yamaha will you update us or me on what type of power she gets,wot speed, all the good stuff. I have no doubt that this 25hp yamaha will be as advertised, yamaha makes excellent products,especially outboard engines. They gave this engine a monster weight loss so I'm curious to see how this engine performs at 432 ccs compared to all the other 25hp 4 strokes who are near 500 ccs or more. The second closest engine as far as ccs is the suzuki with 489,but it's a 3 cylinder powerhouse from all I've seen and read so far. If I go 25hp as of now it would be the suzuki hands down. There is no denying how sweet the suzuki is and how smooth it runs due to the extra cylinder. I'm sure the Yamaha will be just as good but imo having that 3rd cylinder will give the suzuki more power. I guess we will see. Looking forward to your experience with it.
 
turbotodd post has some great points concerning how outboards are used versus the motorcycle engines I had mentioned. That got me thinking about what are the current performance levels of outboards that have to run WOT almost all of the time.

I decided to collect some published figures from the internet and do some math. I limited it to Yamaha because that is the brand we are talking about.

You will see that the F25 that we have been discussing is highlighted in grey on the screen capture of my spreadsheet. All of the cells in the last 3 columns that are colored exceed the F25 in that category.

The F200 In-Line 4-stroke appears to be the overall winner to me.

Just for fun I used the percentages to calculate the perfect TINBOATS.com outboard based on the displacement of the current F25 using the ratios achieved with the F200. You will see it at the bottom of the picture.

Math is fun.

Rob


Edit: I updated the spreadsheet to show what HP level could be achieved if the current 126lb weight and 432cc stayed constant.
 

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If any of you guys get the chance, could I ask you to put a real world review of your new F25 up? I've run the original ('97-'06) F25, and the current ('08-'16) but I have not run the '17 F25. About 3 years ago I saved up some money because Yamaha had sold us that a new F25 is on it's way, and I got some inside info...I was sold. But it's not what it was "supposed" to be, not at all. It's better in some ways, although I'll miss not having the 3rd cylinder. I have a 2000 model (F25ESHY) and it's perfect other than cosmetics, and I'm mostly happy with it-but if the '17 is worth spending some money on, I might try to sell mine and pick up a C model.

What I can tell you is my experience, since I've run 4 different 25's on my 548 war eagle. The original F25 which is what I have does fine. On plane in 3.5 seconds, top speed 29-ish mph at 6180 rpm. I was repairing a friend's '12 model and bolted it to my boat and put the tach on it. It runs 29.5-ish at 6200, on the limiter at times, on plane in 3 seconds flat-has a little more low end power and runs smoother, though the early one is a little quieter. I attribute the smoother operation and more low end to the different cylinder head and intake manifold. Then I had a 25hp 2 stroke twin carb yamaha which was smooth, but wasn't a great idle, and didn't have the response and torque that the original 4 stroke did. AND...I've also got a 3 cylinder 25 thats nearly new-has about 2 hrs run time on it, but it's in a league of it's own. Bone stock. It runs right at 30mph on my boat, so it's legendary power isn't that legendary unless you uncork it, which I'm not doing.

I want to try a new one but I don't want to give up $4000+ just to try it. Says it's faster than the current model according to the website. Even with less displacement.
 
I would go with the 25hp suzuki over the Yamaha after looking at them both closely.
 
Imo,the suzuki is a much better engine,better warranty, 3 cylinder vs 2,only 10 lbs heavier at 136 so no big deal.
 
I ordered the new Yamaha F25 last week. It won't be available until mid March. I will definitely post a review once I get it.

On the spec sheet, the Suzuki initially seems like it may be a stronger performer, with more displacement and an extra cylinder over the Yamaha. The Suzuki is cheaper too. I really contemplated the Suzuki. But consider both Yamaha and Suzuki build 50hp, 449cc, single cylinder high performance motocross bikes.. I can attest that my 2008 Yamaha 450 motocross bike has never been rebuilt, and still runs strong. So Yamaha should have no problem getting 25 reliable horsepower out of a ~430cc twin.


The biggest reason I chose the Yamaha over the Suzuki, is that Suzuki is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy every other year, and there are a lot of service and warranty horror stories. The Suzuki website is really crude. Half of their motorcycles are only offered every other year it seems. Suzuki cars have evaporated from Planet Earth. I have low faith in the Suzuki warranty, especially compared to Yamaha.
 
I understand, but the good part is the chances of ever needing warranty work is so slim I don't worry about that. I know these engines whether they are yamaha, suzuki, mercury,tohatsu or any other major brand,will run for many,many yrs with no issues. Things do happen from time to time but it's so rare the way these engines are built today. Good luck with the Yamaha and please let us know how it performs.
 
so you get 1 less cylinder and no power tilt/trim on short shaft.all for the same price as my power tilt/electric/manual start ss 25 tohatsu,all for a small weight saving?i think i still made the right choice.
 

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