4stroke making oil

[scoobeb]

Ok i have a question that i have done a ton of research on.From what i gather and read on many forums when a 4stroke makes oil which is fuel getting past the rings into the oil on breakin,that means the rings did not seat right from what i have read.From what i have researched also is that if you don't break in an outboard somewhat hard right from the beginning the rings will never seat properly,is this correct at all?If that is correct then i was just wondering why the manufacture wants you to take it easy in the beginning of a breakin when the most critical time to break in the outboard is right from the start?That has me confused.

I'm just trying to learn some things here before i actually buy this new 20hp 4stroke suzuki or merc so i don't make any mistakes.From all the reading i have done,days worth you only get one right chance to set the rings so thats why i'm asking for some info and help here.If i'm going to spend a good amount of money on a motor i'm going to keep for a long time i want to make sure i do everything right so it stays running with no issues.So far from what i have seen it's like 50/50,some say run it hard from the start to seat the rings right,then you have of course follow the manual.I'm sure most of people will say follow the manual and i prob will but i still want to know the answer to why the manual says to take it easy in the beginning if you are suppose to run it in somewhat hard to seat the rings.Just curious for any info or facts anyone might know,thanks.

 

[ckr74]

If it were me I'd follow mfg suggestions for break-in. I think it's a myth about running a brand new engine hard. Take it easy like mfg says and you won't have problems. Your worrying about it too much.

 

[scoobeb]

I have a question for the heck of it,plus i know this is off the subject a bit?Why can a etec be ran hard out of the box according to evinrude but a 4stroke or typical 2stroke can't?Isn't most of the technology today and materials today in all outboards made of the same metals as far as pistons,etc.....What makes them so different that one can be run like you stole it out of the box and all the others must be broke in,this is just a curious question?

 

[turbotodd]

2 stroke is absolutely critical for break in. Do what the MFG suggests.

A few years ago I was at a Yamaha tech school. The instructor explained that the 2 stroke motors are more critical about needing proper break in than 4 strokes. Reason being that the 2 stroke has a power stroke every time a piston nears top dead center. The piston only gets cooling from heat transfer through the piston, into the rings, and to the cylinder wall (which is cooled by water circulating on the outside of it). Also incoming air/fuel helps to cool the piston. When the rings are new and not quite seated, there is less of a cooling effect. Some of the HPDI motors (when they came out) suffered powerhead failures due to improper break-in. Guys would hang it on the boat, dunk it, then take off full throttle. Keep in mind that there is no fuel in the crankcase of an HPDI motor-they are direct injection so AIR is the only thing cooling those pistons.

The 4 stroke does need break in but it's not as critical than it is on a 2 stroke. When the piston changes direction at TDC on the intake stroke, it's exhaust most of the spent charge and air/fuel are coming in and that stroke is held until well after bottom dead center...giving the piston more chance to cool off.

Making oil-4 stroke outboards do it. If they're used in certain ways or the wrong prop is used. If you idle around a lot, they'll make oil. If you start the engine, run it for 30 seconds and repeat-and do that a lot, they'll make oil. If the thermostat sticks open, they'll make oil. If you're running in cold temps and cold water, they'll make oil. Yamaha offers a higher temp thermostat for cold conditions-I do know know if Tohatsu offers that or not. What tends to happen is that the engine always has a slight amount of blowby. Over time, if the engine oil is not allowed to get up to temperature, those blowby byproducts can't evaporate. If the prop is "too big" (overpropped) the engine lugs, and won't develop enough heat in the oil to evaporate blowby gases and moisture.

I idle a lot...so mine makes oil. Not uncommon to pick up 1/4 quart of oil in 10 hours use; so I change oil about every 10 hours roughly. Oil is cheap.

 

[scoobeb]

So basically if i get this 20hp 4stroke suzuki,i will be doing probally a bit of everything with it.I won't idle for long periods of time if i can avoid it so most of the time i would say (70)%will be wot and the rest of the (30)% will be a bit of everything from slow speed to idle.I'm the type to go all out to when i go wot,especially when it's a 14ft jon boat thats rated for only a 20hp i'm going to go wot spot to spot so i would think since i am doing that i should have almost nill in the making oil department since the motor will be getting up to operating temp for quite a bit.

Alot peaked my interest when i read this article whether it's right or wrong (mototune break in secrets)I don't know how true of correct this article is but i was just dumd founded by it and it sure seems like he knows what hes talking about.Also i know he deals with bikes there but he refers to all 4stroke motors in general with this huge article.Have you ever read it just curious?it explains on how to break in a new 4stroke in general and he says to seat the rings properly break it in hard but also to vary rpms as well.But he said people make a mistake by taking it to easy on a 4stroke motor and thats were the most critical time is to seat the rings.

I'm not saying one bit it's correct but it sure seems like he has alot of proof to back his claims up.Well hope to hear your opinion on this thanks.

 

[rickybobbybend]

Not all opinions are created equal...follow the manufacturer 's recommendations. They put their money where their mouth is in the form of a warranty.

 

[scoobeb]

I understand that most near everyone plus i'm in agreement that the manufacture prob knows best,but if you look at a breakin chart from like the last 15 to 20yrs they don't change to much on how outboards should be broke in,but in the meanwhile technology around us has changed quite a bit.I don't think any manufacture wants to go the extra distance to see if there actually may be a better or even a dif way of breaking in 4stroke outboards.You get a car there is no breakin like an outboard or i have never read once in any manual of the brand new cars i bought were it says to break it in.

Most of the 4stroke outboards of today are built on the manufactures car design as is the 20hp suzuki,as stated on their website.IMO i don't think a 4stroke outboard needs nearly as much breakin as it states.Like i said its just an opinion.From what i gather the suzuki says 20hrs i think,that just seems a bit extreme to break in an outboard and i will almost guess most people don't break them in for that long.I can see how varying the rpms up and down all around could have a huge benefit to the motor because your not holding it to one speed but making sure every internal part gets worked in properly at dif speeds.Once the rings are seated what else really needs to be broke in?Thats a question i have?I understand the metal that sheds from gears working in must be taken out with quick oil changes also.

From what i have read on a ton of forums,there are guys who have been building and tearing down thousands of outboards for many yrs and they actually suggest changing the oil after like 2 to 4 hrs max to eliminate any metal shavings,then replace the oil and run again for like another 2-4hrs then change the oil again,including lower unit oil,then run till u hit like 10-15hrs and change again and you should be good after that for like 50-100hrs depending on how often it's used and conditions.I can see how changing the oil 3times in less then 15hrs to eliminate all metal and whatever else may be in there could be a good idea,the manual does not state to do that.I understand that most people have an opinion and most everyone says follow the manufacture specs,just curious though does anyone think outside the box a bit when doing what the manufacture says,for instance i'm sure some people if not most get that urge to open it up a time or 2 in the beginning and do so.

It's hard to be patient and wait 10-20hrs to just want to get on it.From what i have seen on the forums i have read,usually condensation and gas getting past the rings on an improper ring seat is the culprit of making oil also.Like people who troll never get the motor up to operating range so the motor will not get hot enough to burn any access fuel or water that has got into the crankcase.Thats what most of the engine guys said happens.The 4strokes must be run hard after breakin every once in a while to get it hot enough to operating temp.Most people also said who run 4stroke they won't run wide open at long periods of time because 4stroke outboards are not made for that.I can't see how thats even close to possible or accurate.There is a rpm range to stay between,the suzuki is 5300-6300,you should be able to run wot as long as you want between that range with no issues i would think,Most of the 4stroke owners just from the things i have read just believe these motors can't handle that.Who knows but i find this whole 4stroke outboard thing pretty interesting and you learn alot from reading.

Ive had 2strokes all my life and like stated everywere they are simple and easy.It's amazing what you can learn from people just by reading muliple articles and forums,pretty awesome stuff.