I.D Chrysler Outboard

[fastxl1250]

I just picked up a small 14' aluminum boat yesterday which came with a 25 h.p Chrysler. I am trying to source some seals for the lower unit along with tune up parts. There is no data plate on this engine anywhere. I found 458038 stamped in the bottom of the pan under the carb, and a carb model WE-1 which I believe puts me somewhere in the '83-'84 range. Any one know of any differences between the models? It looks like there are 4 different models per year. I am also hoping to find a wiring diagram.

 

[GYPSY400]

That one looks like a survivor.. you might want to try and search Force outboards as well.. the Chrysler/ force brand of motors don't have a good reputation, so don't spend alot of time and/or money on it. Parts are hard to come by. Best of luck with your project.

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[nccatfisher]

I believe that was before Force.

 

[GYPSY400]

I believe that was before Force.

Im "guessing" the parts may cross reference.. I can't see them redesigning the whole outboard once they changed the name. I believe that when Bayliner bought the chysler line of outboards they merely changed the color and the name..

I could be totally wrong tho, as they are few and far between.. and the general consensus is that once its broke, just scrap it!
Who knows! The OP might get it going, and it might run good for 10 years. I've honestly never seen a 25 chrysler, only 8hp and 9.9.

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[RaisedByWolves]

I believe that was before Force.

Im "guessing" the parts may cross reference.. I can't see them redesigning the whole outboard once they changed the name. I believe that when Bayliner bought the chysler line of outboards they merely changed the color and the name..

I could be totally wrong tho, as they are few and far between.. and the general consensus is that once its broke, just scrap it!
Who knows! The OP might get it going, and it might run good for 10 years. I've honestly never seen a 25 chrysler, only 8hp and 9.9.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Ive seen Chrysler branded motors in other things that were made by Continental, but I cant speak to their boat motors..

 

[nccatfisher]

I believe that was before Force.

Im "guessing" the parts may cross reference.. I can't see them redesigning the whole outboard once they changed the name. I believe that when Bayliner bought the chysler line of outboards they merely changed the color and the name..

I could be totally wrong tho, as they are few and far between.. and the general consensus is that once its broke, just scrap it!
Who knows! The OP might get it going, and it might run good for 10 years. I've honestly never seen a 25 chrysler, only 8hp and 9.9.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

We had 115 Chrylsers on state boats back in the late 70s. I also had a 25 on a state Jon.

 

[fastxl1250]

I appreciate the help. It seems to be in good shape, the previous owner started it the morning I got it. Looking at it quick I can see the lower seals need to be done along with plugs. The pull start assembly was missing so I ordered a used one for $35. I think I identified the boat and trailer as an old lone Star King Commander on a Tee Nee trailer. I got the package for free so I figure even if I put $1,000 into it I'm still in good shape. It was on the water last year with the only issue being a leak of about a gallon an hour. I plan on tightening/replacing rivets and re welding some of the patches above the waterline. Im a welder if anyone in NH ever needs a hand with anything, I'm set up for light aluminum at home.

 

[C&K]

I believe that was before Force.

Im "guessing" the parts may cross reference.. I can't see them redesigning the whole outboard once they changed the name. I believe that when Bayliner bought the chysler line of outboards they merely changed the color and the name..

They didn't even change the color, just the stickers on it. This is a '85 Chrysler Force 50 on my engine stand. I work on quite a few of these for people



The Chrysler Force engines were built by US Marine (Division of Bayliner) in Hartford, Wisconsin 1983-1986. The sale of Chrysler's marine division was forced as part of the government bailout program, even though Chrysler's marine division was highly profitable. Chrysler held roughly 23% of the domestic marine market at one point in the 60's after they purchased Lone Star Boats in Plano, Texas. They were and are actually very good outboards, cross-scavenged design, tilt and pivot bracket built like a tank, the lower unit on them is very robust. Mercury Marine acquired the brand in 1986 and they were built in Hartford until 1990 when production was moved to Fon Du Lac, Wisconsin.

What killed the original Chrysler cross-scavenged design is fuel. With the baffled pistons and high compression ratio they are prone to detonation and with the advent of poorer quality unleaded fuel many of them melted piston crowns and broke ring lands on the pistons before people learned to de-tune them and reduce the max timing advance to 28 deg BTDC. In 1990 Mercury changed the Force engine design to loop-scavenged with flat-top pistons. So there is significant differences between the Chrysler Force and Mercury Force engines, even though some parts like water pump housings interchange between them. The Mercury Force engines were poor quality with lots of problems, and were considered to be Mercury's "economy brand". Production ended in 1999.

The main problem today with the Chrysler engines is finding parts for them. Some parts are still stocked for the Chrysler Force engines (same as the Chrysler brand) that are common with the 1990 and later Mercury Force engines. Other parts like pistons and rings, main and rod bearings are still supported by the aftermarket. Ignition system components and lower unit parts are very hard to find anymore. Items like crankshafts, rods, flywheels, lower unit housings are good used only thru a salvage yard or junked engine. Things like prop shaft or lower unit seals, I tear a lower unit down, measure the shaft and seal bore diameters with a mic, and the bore depth, look up the seal by dimensions in a National Seal catalog and replace it with one that fits. Same with o-rings, etc..

 

[fastxl1250]

I'll have to grab a clymer for the Chrysler and verify the timing. I appreciate the info, do you go through Wiseco for pistons?

 

[C&K]

I'll have to grab a clymer for the Chrysler and verify the timing. I appreciate the info, do you go through Wiseco for pistons?

Last couple sets of pistons and rings I've gotten thru Sierra. But for pistons that have been discontinued Wiseco is the best source because they'll custom-make any pistons you want.

Be very careful with the max timing advance on the Chrysler engines. If you can get good non-ethanol "recreational" gasoline, that is the best. But it still normally requires jetting one size up on the main jets to keep them from pinging on modern fuels. So best is to either run it on the dyno at full throttle (if you have an International Marine Dyno), or take the boat out and run it at full throttle. If it pings you'll know it - it sounds like somebody shaking gravel in a tin can. So back the max advance off until that stops. Unfortunately, this is going to de-rate the engine from it's original power rating. But it's cheaper than putting pistons in it. It will blow the crowns off the pistons right down to the top ring land in short order if you let it ping due to poor quality fuel.

These old Chryslers are 10.85:1 compression ratio and they just don't make the gas for 'em anymore unless you get 100LL aviation fuel at the airport.

 

[fastxl1250]

No wonder they detonate that is up there on for a compression ratio. I've found gasket sets for 40hp+ but not much aside from NOS kits on ebay for the under 35hp outboards. If it came to it I'm sure I could find a headmaster that is close and make the rest.

 

[C&K]

No wonder they detonate that is up there on for a compression ratio. I've found gasket sets for 40hp+ but not much aside from NOS kits on ebay for the under 35hp outboards. If it came to it I'm sure I could find a headmaster that is close and make the rest.

Yeah, they are a cross-scavenged design with domed (baffled) pistons, while everybody else during the era was building loop-scavenged engines with flat-top pistons. But back in the 60's when they were designed you could still get 97 or 100 octane ethyl leaded at the pump too. This was the same era that Chrysler built the 426 Hemi's, 340 and 440 six-packs, and 340/383/440 Magnums in muscle cars that came off the showroom floor with 11:1 compression. So-called "pump gas" got pretty watered down with the advent of unleaded fuels in the early 80's and the only places you can get good gas anymore is either Turbo Blue race gas, or 100LL aviation fuel.

You can read more about the problem here:
http://www.klemmvintage.com/gasolines.htm