Wiring sketch with 3 questions (included picture and links)

[HOUSE]

First off, God bless all of you electrical gurus that reply to all of these types of threads. I can't explain how hard trying to figure out this wiring stuff has been, even after reading through all 50 pages of this forum. I feel like I'm trying to learn Chinese algebra! When I finally get this all sorted out, I'm going to make a how-to guide for other wiring newbs like me with a summary of everything I've learned from you pros.

Can you guys look over this picture and help me fix possible flaws with my design please?

The big issues/questions I have so far:
1) I have one PVC pipe running the length of my boat, but I need to run three wires through it: the main 6gauge wire back from the battery as well as the #1 Fish Finder and Bow Light. Can they all be in the same PVC pipe or should I run three pipes separately? (Or maybe run the FF and Bow light tied to the outside of the pipe.)
2) Switch question: I want to keep this simple, so I was planning on buying the 6port switch from Bass Pro Shops that has the fuses built in even though it has crappy reviews. Is there some other pre-made switch I could buy that is better? Here's the link to the BPS switch: https://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Rocker-Switch-Panels/product/861/100219
It is rated for 15amps, and I'm assuming it is 3amps on each one, but I have to check in the store Friday. I've also have to check my Humminbird 570 and Bow Lights to make sure they need a 3amp fuse and 2amp fuse, but I don't know if I can swap out the fuses that come inside this switch. Anyone know?
3) Anchor light and Bow light: How do I wire these both to the same switch on my panel? Do I buy a "2-peg ground block type thing" and wire them both to this and then wire the 2-peg thing to the switch panel? (I don't know the terminology, sorry)
4)Ground block question: I need to run the negative terminals of all of my devices into these, but should I be using "bus bars" instead? I'm not really sure the difference. Also, I'm running these back to the negative terminal of my battery. Can I use 14gauge wire for these? I have 6gauge for the positive feed from the battery, as well as 6gauge to the trolling motor(w/50amp fuse).
5) LED lights: I read not to connect them in a series, but I'm not sure how to run them in parallel. Do I just run a 14gauge wire to each positive lead back to some sort of "3-peg ground block thingy" and then wire this into the switch panel? It'd be a lot easier just to splice them all together in a row, but I run the risk of them all going out I suppose. Is there any other concern doing them in series?
6) 2nd Battery: Can one battery handle this load? It's only a 40# thrust trolling motor, and the lights wont be used very often. I don't have the 2nd fish finder yet, and the back trolling motor is optional even though I have it (35#thrust). I also have a pull-start 9.9HP motor.

Again, thank you for even reading this thread. It means a lot to me how helpful you guys are. I hate feeling like my boat is going to explode but I look forward to tackling this last major project.

-House

 

[HOUSE]

Here are some of the helpful threads I bookmarked for any other newbie confused on where to begin:

1) What gauge wire to use: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
2) Wire type/size/connections: https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23550
3) Grounding a toggle switch: https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14685
4) Electrical connections 101: https://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/05.htm
5) (more to come...)

 

[roadkill636]

I would say that you probly wont be very happy with that switch pannel. it will leak water into the switches and break corode very soon look for one that clearly states its water proof or with rubber cover over the switches and breakers such as this one


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-CIRCUIT-WATERPROOF-BOAT-RV-SWITCH-PANEL-10032-/330388816628?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item4cecb542f4

you really dont need the grounding bars, just run the wires back to the batery itself

and as far as the bow and stern light gos just split the wire and run them both off the same switch.

another good way of running a bunch of wires is to go to a farm or trailer store and buy trailer wiring, it comes with 6 or 7 or 9 wires all together, and most of them will be 14 ga and one or two will be 10 ga, wich will be plenty for the main suply to the switch pannel

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trailer-Light-Cable-Wiring-Harness-7-Wire-6-12-1-10-Gauge-Jacketed-Black-/140709091916?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item20c2ea5a4c

 

[KevinWI]

disagree on no need for grounding busbar. It's intended to not have to run a pile of wires to the battery. I only have one wire to the negative and one to positive on my battery...the rest of the wires are neatly secured to a grounding busbar and terminal block. Makes for taking the battery in/out much easier without dealing with a mess of wires. With the terminal block and grounding busbar the wires will never need to be touched as they are neatly tucked away....and also minimizes the amount of wiring needed especially if your switch panel is located in a different area than the batteries.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

A few comments:

- If you are going with the 2nd trolling motor, go to a two battery system. You don't want to run power to a trolling motor through a switch panel, either.

- Depending on your trolling motor and FF, you might have to issolate FF if you have noise issues.

- I wouldn't run wire all the way back to the switch panel and back for FF #1. Lots of wiring that is not needed. Put a single switch up front or, if you remove your FF consider just a fused line.

- Consider adding bilge pump and aux outlet.

- Trolling motor should be on seperate breaker. Same for panel feed, and assume each line from panel is fused.

- Yes there is a switch you can put both anchor and nav light on. Many switch panels don't have that, so you can just put them on seperate switches.


PS: Use a ground block for all the grounds that you supplied power to from the switch bank. The wires returning from the device should be the same gauge as what was required to feed it. The wire from the ground block, back to the battery should be the same gauge as the panel supply wire.

If you use the front ground block, that should be just devices you powered directly up front. I don't think that is realy needed. Trolling motor will be seperate.

 

[RivRunR]

Well, I'm certainly no electrical guru, but I'll take a shot at some of this...

First, I don't see a reason to run your trolling motors thru a switch since they have their own on/off at the motor. You do need to run a breaker between the battery and the motors though, and breaker size is dependent on amp draw, wire gauge, and length of run. The breaker for each TM should be located as close to the battery as possible.

Another issue might be interference from your trolling motor(s) on your fish finders when they are all on the same battery. And again, I don't see a reason to put your finders thru a switch.

So, I think you might be better served on that layout to have 2 batteries. One for your trolling motors, and one for everything else.
Wire your TM's up as battery > breaker > TM. If you want a ground bar for the TMs you can, but since they will be the only things on that battery, you could just run the TM grounds directly to the battery neg post.
Wire up the + leads on the other battery for your lights, etc. like battery + > breaker (20 amp?) > fuse block > switch > accessory +. Wire up the grounds on those circuits as battery neg > ground bar > accessory ground (just for neatness). This is the Fuse Block I used.
This 2 battery layout will keep your finders isolated from your motors, and will also give you a 'backup' so you are less likely to deplete your battery with accessories and/or motors so you can get back home .

Oh, and for the breakers, I prefer the "manual reset" over the "auto reset" types...I want to know if I'm tripping breakers.

For your other questions:
1. I think running all your leads thru a single pvc will be ok, as long as each circuit has the correct gauge wire and fuse / breaker.
2. Can't help with switch panels, I ran individual switches to the console.
3. Nav lights...typically you'd run these on a DPDT (double pole double throw) On-Off-On switch, which lets you run your bow+anchor lights, or anchor light only. Wiring the switch depends on how the switch is configured, but this is typical:

4. Ground buss vs block doesn't matter, it's just a 'distribution' bar for your grounds. Wire gauge for ground should be the same as the + for that circuit. There's charts all over the www for amp/length/gauge.
5. Someone else will have to chime in on the LED question.
6. Second battery? I'd say yes.

Again, I'm no electrical expert, so take all this with a grain of salt and I'm sure others on here will help too.

 

[HOUSE]

Man, you guys really are something...thanks so much for the replies. It makes a lot more sense now.

I re-worked my sketch last night. I think it might be easiest to just use a 4-switch panel for the lights, and leave one open for a possible bilge pump. I tested my battery last night and it ran my trolling motor on high for 5 hours and never died, so I think I'll hold off on the 2-battery system and buy two new ones together down the road. I'm also going to hold off on the second trolling motor and second fish finder until then too.

The last 2 questions I have, and again, I'm sorry to bother you guy so much, are:
1) If I daisy-chain my LED lights like shown below, can I branch off a third wire to the front LED light as shown in the pink circle? or should I get some sort of ground block for this? How could I avoid the daisy-chain set up with my current diagram...Do I just run 7 positive wires to each of the LED lights that branch off from some sort of post/block near my switch? Since these wires are so small, I was just going to solder them together and heat-shrink wrap them afterwards. Is that okay for small wiring like this?
2) Regarding the front "+/-" block coming off the battery...First off, what the heck is this thing called when I go to the hardware store? lol. Do I need 2 separate things? A "distribution block" for the 4 positive lines and a "ground block" for the 5 negative leads. Should I combine the Bow Light and the LED light together and run one less negative lead back to this thing? Should I isolate the fish finder and the main 6# wire off of their own block to avoid interference from the trolling motor and lights?

Is this a more accurate drawing, with a (+) distribution block and a (-) grounding block?

 

[FuzzyGrub]

I'd look at as three seperate circuits:

- Circuit #1 Trolling Motor
- Circuit #2 Bow FF
- Circuit #3 Switch Panel/Ground Block

Each one of the circuits will have a + and - terminal at the battery.
Each should have the same size wire going to it, as returning.
Each should have a fuse or circuit breaker close to the positive terminal. This is sized to the max amp capacity of the wire per wire gauge and length.

All circuits powered by the circuit panel should have the return coming back to a ground block by the circuit panel. The ground block would then have a wire going back to the battery (same size as wire feeding circuit panel). Each of the circuits on the switch panel should be fused or circuit breaker. These are sized to the max amp capacity of the wire per wire gauge and length. All wires should be sized to handle the indivdual amp load ratings of the devices.

 

[HOUSE]

Well, I went out and started buying wiring supplies this weekend, and WOW this stuff isn't cheap! I was able to get 30 feet of 14# gauge wire for 9 bucks which I thought was decent. I also bought 2 "bus bar" type grounds for 2 bucks a piece that the hardware store said should handle my lighting project. I held off on the Bass Pro switch thanks to your helpful warnings, and have one ordered online with 5 switches. I'm going to run my fuses separately on a small fuse block. I think 3amp fuses for the lights are all that I need, although I couldn't find my Humminbird 565's recommended fuse. The manual says: Power Output (RMS): 250 Watts (RMS) Power Output (Peak to Peak): 2000 Watts (Peak-to-Peak). Can anyone teach me how to figure out the fuse from that information? Here's the product link: https://store.humminbird.com/products/344716/565

I tried to get my LEDs going, but the wire is so cheap that if I wrap just two strands together they don't light up. I'm going to try soldering two together tonight, but I think I might just have to run individual hot leads to all 9 of them...pain in the butt, but at least they wont all go out together. I reworked my drawing yet again for this and added a central "distribution block" sort of thing for the positive leads and a grounding block for the negatives that ties back to the battery. You other guys that wired LED lights in, did you use 14# gauge wire for each light? It seems like a pretty large wire for the job.

Last questions hopefully...What is the easiest and most cost efficient way to splice these wires together? Adding U-connectors on each end and then shrink wrapping them is kind of a pain. I feel more comfortable with a solder gun... can I just do solder them and then shrink wrap them up?

Here is one of the 2 bus bars I'm using to tie all of the LED wiring together. I might just crimp down the 14# wire and then waterproof the entire block in a small plastic container:

 

[FuzzyGrub]

A 1 amp fuse is all that is needed for that HB.

 

[atuck593]

Woah man House... I know what you mean. Trying to look up/learn all of this wiring is like learning chinese algebra lol. I am looking to put in a switch pannel on the back of my boat in a console I am creating. I would like to clean up some of the wires I have now to have a clean set up. Have you created that easy to use guide yet? I also have a few questions if you or anyone could help...this seems like a good thread.

#1 What damage could be done if I dont install a breaker on the line to my trolling motor. I have a plug set up with the leads going right to the battery.

#2 What does a bus bar do? Does it just allow you to have many other wires branch off from one main feed? Not sure even how to ask or explain what I think on that one.

#3 I only have one battery. I plan on powering my fish finder right from the switch pannel on the back of my boat. The FF will also be on the back of the boat. I have heard you shouldn't run the transducer cable through the same PVC wire pipe as that will cause interference.

Any help guys would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

#1 What damage could be done if I dont install a breaker on the line to my trolling motor. I have a plug set up with the leads going right to the battery.

#2 What does a bus bar do? Does it just allow you to have many other wires branch off from one main feed? Not sure even how to ask or explain what I think on that one.

#3 I only have one battery. I plan on powering my fish finder right from the switch pannel on the back of my boat. The FF will also be on the back of the boat. I have heard you shouldn't run the transducer cable through the same PVC wire pipe as that will cause interference.

#1, If you drive a screw through the floor and it connects to both the positive and negative wire, good chance of a fire. It won't stop until the wire or screw melts. Just like in your home, the breaker protects the wire, and prevents fires. I have seen 16ga wire short (with no fuse/breaker). The insulation vaporizes and the wire is red hot like a bulb filament, in a fraction of a second. All wires need a breaker or fuse near the positive source.

#2 Convienent place to tie the negative wires from the individual devices. Many panels will already have this, and additional ones won't be neccessary.

#3 Correct, not a good practice.

 

[atuck593]

#1 What damage could be done if I dont install a breaker on the line to my trolling motor. I have a plug set up with the leads going right to the battery.

#2 What does a bus bar do? Does it just allow you to have many other wires branch off from one main feed? Not sure even how to ask or explain what I think on that one.

#3 I only have one battery. I plan on powering my fish finder right from the switch pannel on the back of my boat. The FF will also be on the back of the boat. I have heard you shouldn't run the transducer cable through the same PVC wire pipe as that will cause interference.

#1, If you drive a screw through the floor and it connects to both the positive and negative wire, good chance of a fire. It won't stop until the wire or screw melts. Just like in your home, the breaker protects the wire, and prevents fires. I have seen 16ga wire short (with no fuse/breaker). The insulation vaporizes and the wire is red hot like a bulb filament, in a fraction of a second. All wires need a breaker or fuse near the positive source.

#2 Convienent place to tie the negative wires from the individual devices. Many panels will already have this, and additional ones won't be neccessary.

#3 Correct, not a good practice.

Well for number 2... as long as I run both the positive and negative feeds to the lights and fish finder from the switch panel... I won't need the bus bar then? The panel will act as the bus bar or common negative?
Number 3... The fish finder will be mounted on the back of the boat, so the transducer wire won't go the length of the boat, just right to the finder.

What is a good all around guage wire to run all of this off of? Example from the battery to the panel? The panel to the LED lights and finder?

I use an old extension chord to power directly from the battery to the outlet plugs. I figured this should be strong enough to handle the power as well as have the outdoor coating to handle any water or moisture in the bottom of the boat.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

You have to check your panel if it has a bus bar.

All wires should be sized to the max load they will see. For most, a 14 or 16ga will be plenty.

Extension cords do not neccessarily have heavy gauge wire. They are made for higher voltage AC (lower current). If you were using to power a circuit panel, probably the wire size is too small.

 

[HOUSE]

Atuck, good luck with the wiring dude! Like everything else with my mod I found it intimidating to start, but once I got my hands dirty it all started to make sense. Drawing a fancy picture helped, but it wasn't until I installed my LED strips that I started to see it all come together.

I used "busbars" to run a bunch of wires to one common place and then run one single wire back to the battery. I still don't know the proper terminology, but in my mind I was calling the positive busbar a "power distribution block" since I was running one positive line into the thing and then powering all of my devices. I called the negative busbars "grounding blocks" because I was grounding all of my negative leads through it. I found out that they are not all the same, and some are rated to carry more current than others. I got most of the "official" names from browsing through a BlueSea catalog. I'll have a link for it when the guide is done

I ran a fuse to my trolling motor just because everyone else did, lol. I got it for 12 bucks, so i just went with it. I ran my trolling motor at my local park for years without one, but it made sense to have it on there since I wont be able to see it under my floorboard, and there's a chance it might get wet. Also, my friend got some braided line wrapped around his prop and his motor burned up on him. I think a fuse might have saved his unit.


One remaining question I had about this thing:

*I ran all of my positive leads for my LED lights into this "block" from Home Depot and then I screwed this thing into one of the wooden benches under my floorboard. I worry about it since it is a "hot" block and it's attached to wood. Since it's only powering LED lights and there is a 2amp fuse before it at the switch, it shouldn't draw any heat, right? I have one #14gauge wire into it coming from my switch, with 6 outgoing #14gauge leads to each of my LEDs 2 feet away. (Also, how can I waterproof this thing? I was thinking about putting it in a small Tupperware container with a drain, but again, I'm concerned about it melting even though I don't think I need to be...)
:shock:

 

[HOUSE]

4/16/2012 WIRING COMPLETE! Hurray!

It took me a while to get everything working, but I finally got it. Thanks for all of the advice. Due to the LED lights I had to run an extra positive lead (PINK) the entire length of the boat just for the front ones. (It might have been easier to just put a switch up front, but oh well, it's all completed and working now.) I also used 4 busbars for all of the LED leads which probably could have been done easier. Oh well It's clean and organized now, and most importantly, everything works.

Here's my final wiring schematic. Does anyone see any final screw-ups? It might be easier to post a darn video of my boat since I have wires all over the place! I'm sure there was an easier way to do it, but I'm just glad to be done #-o