Fix or part out? 1956 Johnson 18hp

[mirrocraft16]

Things are cheaper down south, and NJ and NY seem to be the highest on the east coast.
NJ has a high gas sales tax too. They also just announced that they're raising the gas tax to pay for the revenue lost to electric cars. Plus they're going to bill EV owners a road use tax. All of which is on top of an annual automatic 1.9 cent per gallon increase to the already high tax of 42.9 cents per gallon. Ad that to already high registration fees and high property taxes and we're getting hit pretty hard here. My property tax on a home I bought 6 years ago for $71k is now just under $10k and with real estate prices going crazy, the new assessment is now $330k. If the taxes go up accordingly, most senior will likely loose their homes. With most getting $800 to $1,500/mo in SS, its not going to cover their taxes let alone food and utilities.

Gas by me has been going up about 10¢ a gallon per day since Sunday, the guy at the Sinclair station told me that it going to be going way up over the next few days. I was listening to some talk show on the radio the other day and they said to expect close to $5/gal prices by 7/4.
I paid $3.92 today for regular at the shore up north of me about 100 miles. It was a few cents cheaper here and there but for work they get a few cents off per gallon if I buy from Sinclair. At home, there are no Sinclair stations, just Royal Farms and Wawa but my truck doesn't do well on gas from Wawa for some reason. I get about 3 mpg less there.

I buy my boat gas only at BJ's Wholesale club, its always a few cents cheaper and they sell a ton of gas so its always fresh.

Walmart here is hit or miss for oil, or anything automotive or boat related. They've been cutting back in the past few years and have out most items behind glass. They no longer sell OEM filters, just Fram and Purolator. The entire boat section which used to be two isles is not about 40" long on the end of the air filter isle. The auto section is mostly wiper blades, floor mats and washer fluid with a small oil and antifreeze section. Batteries are hit or miss but they rarely have bigger batteries. I basically stopped going there because all the things I used to buy there they quit carrying. I haven't seen their brand oil there in a while, the last time I did i bought all that they had but that's gone a long time ago. I'm running on what I have left of some bulk oil I got up in PA at a Mercury dealer two years ago. I also have about twelve cases of older TCW-2 oil from a neighbor who passed away a few years ago, he had about 11 cases of old round can Arco brand boat oil and even some old Kendall oil. I'll run it in the older motors but not in my good motors but even then I'll mix it with some modern oil too.
I haven't checked lately but most of the big boat and outboard shops have gone away, only a few down the shore remain and one or two small repair only type shops. A few marinas have parts but they're not cheap. Bulk oil is a thing of the past since BRP ended E-rude motors. Most dealers took on an import to make up for the lost of BRP.
I had a two stroke Johnson 70 on a trihull years ago, that thing was rough on fuel, it had a 20 gallon factory tank and i had to carry two 6 gallon tanks just to run about 20 miles up and down the river. To be fair that boat was always overloaded, we would run over to a few water front spots and that meant about 20 miles out, and 20 miles back up stream. If my one buddy brought his wife, that was like three more people. I'm over 6ft and about 330lbs, and I'm the little guy in my crowd. On an empty boat I suppose that motor would have been a lot better but with two women in the back jump seats, two guys in the captains chairs, and the bigger couple up in the bow, it was maxed out and then some.
My Mirrocraft Lake fisherman is wide, so it stays on top of the water, I can run about 20 miles on a 6 gallon tank with my '82 35hp. But coming back up river it takes about 9 gallons or so fighting the current, and often the wind as well with two big men on board. An older friend of mine has the same model boat but he runs a new Mercury 9.9hp four stroke, and although its slow, it'll run for two days on a small 3gal tank. But that boat won't get on plane, even with just him in it. He's happy with it that way because it runs cheap. He just leaves earlier and gets back later. What takes us an hour takes him 2 1/2 hrs.

 

[mbullen]

When I first bought my 16ft boat it had a 1964 Evinrude 18hp on it, the motor ran great but drank fuel like crazy. I was used to my 14ft boat and its 9.5hp that would run all day on 6 gallons of gas and oil. I happened on a 9.9 four stroke and never looked back, the 9.9 four stroke will go all day on less than 3 gallons, maybe even go two days on the river if its not windy.
My 16ft would go through two 6 gallon tanks in a day of fishing the river, about 12 miles or so each way out to the bay through countless no wake zones with no fuel stops along the way. With the old 18hp, it ran 50:1 mix, and I dumped a 16oz bottle into every 6 gallon tank. Back then it cost about $16 a tank for fuel, so figure $32 for the day, and another $10 for bait and $15 in the tow vehicle.
Now, gas is more than double, oil has gone crazy these days and is even hard to find some days.
The dealer no longer has the bulk oil, and the only options are $58 or $65/gal jugs.
Walmart used to have it a few dollars less but they stopped carrying it after 2020.
The whole fishing and boating section is decimated with only a few trailer draw bars, rod holders, and plastic handle drain plugs if you lucky.
A tank of 24:1 premix would cost me just under $40 per tank or about $80 for the day. Its no wonder there's no boats out there anymore. I used to go at least twice a week and after I retired about four times a week skipping Friday through Sunday. That would cost me $320 a month in fuel and oil. Not counting bait or the four gallons of fuel I'll burn in the truck getting the boat to the ramp. When you get only $850/mo in SS and still have to pay $9k a year in property tax, $5k in truck insurance, and $5k in homeowners insurance, Yes, the cost of fuel and oil these days hurts. None of that is taking into account the cost of groceries either these days. If I didn't have savings from not spending anything my whole life I'd be really screwed right now. My house, car, truck, and boats are all paid for. If I ever loose the ability to make a buck on the side I'm sunk. What's worse, nearly everyone I know is in the same situation these days. We do generally split the costs but the way it works out is I pay for fuel in my boat and he pays for his boat. His burns more fuel though since he's running an early 70's Mercury 500 (50hp) on practically the same boat. He hasn't registered his boat yet this year though, many haven't because the DMV now specializes and boats have to be renewed in person if you skip a year, and that means going to a regional office 80 miles or so away. Many though just seem to take their chances because they haven't been hassling anyone lately about registration stickers. Its actually been a while since I saw a current sticker on the water here. They rarely give you a ticket the first time, so every year you get away with it is another $28 in your pocket.

Your $32 fuel day in 1964 was actually way more expensive comparatively than today's $80 day.


Also, fwiw, the Walmart/ oil stories are wild.
Here in Tennessee, the shelves are stocked with variety.
$18.74 per gal for Super Tech
$21.74 Pennzoil
$26.42 Valvoline
$33.98 Quicksilver

 

[oilsmoke]

Gas was $6

Your $32 fuel day in 1964 was actually way more expensive comparatively than today's $80 day.
Context.

"When I first bought my 16ft boat it had a 1964 Evinrude 18hp on it,"

It sounded more to me like that when he bought his boat it had a '64 Evinrude on it?
When I bought my boat it had a 1973 Mercury on it, but the boat was a 1986 Mirrocraft and I bought it in 1990.
What's the difference?
Fuel and oil costs these days are nuts, I filled my truck up on Tues on my way to the shore, it took $185 to fill the tank. That's only 37 gallons. When I bought the truck 21 years ago it took about $60 to fill it.

Gas was right around $4 in that area, it varies a lot depending on what road your on but its been going up fast here lately.
The news keeps saying to stock up on fuel because it's going to soar past $5 gallon by the fourth of July.
My guess is that they're gonna run the price up for the holiday and it'll back off a bit but then go back up for Labor Day again.
It'll stay high till election day when they'll do something to lower it to make themselves look good. It happens every time.



I've had trouble finding plain old 2 stroke oil here, all the Walmarts here seem to have in stock is injector oil and small bottles of off brand 'All Purpose' 2 stroke oil.
I have not seen the blue jugs of Walmart brand TCW-3 in a few years locally.
I did buy a few in DE back in March for $24.99 but I also go that way on occasion anyhow. I would never just drive that far just to get oil, I think I'd start using motor oil first.

The Yamaha dealer has their brand oil and a few high dollar synthetic types, The Yamalube TCW-3 dino oil is $44.99 at the dealer, a few bucks less online through Amazon.
I have a few partial jugs of older Pennzoil. Walmart used to sell it for $24.99/gal here but I've not seen it in years. Other than dealers and a few marina stores, there's not many choices left locally when it comes to oil. You can order it online and have it sent to your local Walmart but so far none that I ordered as materialized. I order it and never get a notice that it arrived. Most of the time if I pay online, it'll post the pending payment, then a few days later it'll show as "Your item has been back ordered" or it'll show "Insufficient Quantities Available" when I try to check out.
I gave up trying to deal with them here. When I'm in FL its a different ballgame, the store in Stuart, FL is great, they have a huge fishing and boating area and its always well stocked, here your lucky to find a pack of hooks or some cheap line, and maybe package of rope or a package of boat letters. They used to stock fuel tanks, anchors, trailer bearings, rollers, winches, etc. but no more. The whole section is about 12 ft long or so and in total disarray. Other areas of the stores are just as bad, with bare shelves, broken items, wrong prices on items, and really long lines to checkout because they only open one register or direct you to self checkout.

This has been a hard state to deal with since I moved here, boating, fishing, hunting and such all seem to be an issue since around 2019 or so. It seems that they've done as much as they can here to make boating and fishing more expensive and more difficult. Nearly every town used to have a DMV where you could renew your paperwork every year, now you have to do it online or drive hours away because they closed many of the locations and made a good many of them specialized locations to deal with the new driver's license program. Since I have a commercial license, both for marine and truck, I'm forced to go to the main DMV office to renew. If you didn't maintain your boat's registration through the pandemic, (a year when they closed all the ramps and waterways and all the DMV offices), you now have to make an appointment at a "Regional" office that handles only In Person' new or expired renewals. Then when they do, they want you to pay for the back years that the boat or trailer sat unused as well. Not paying it breaks the paper trail on the trailer, which isn't titled here, so it then becomes nearly unsellable.
They wanted me to pay $257.50 this year to renew my one boat which I hadn't renewed since 2019.
This is for 2024, plus four 'back' years for the boat and trailer, $28/yr for the boat, and $23.50/yr for the trailer.
Its no wonder so many of the boats you do see don't have current registrations. I'd tag it in PA but that would mean a title change and charge for that as well. I totally do not see why they should charge you for past, unused years. Especially since it was their fault in the first place when they closed all the boat ramps and banned recreational activities in 2020. Surely they didn't expect us to pay for something we couldn't use?

 

[mbullen]

Gas was $6

"When I first bought my 16ft boat it had a 1964 Evinrude 18hp on it,"

It sounded more to me like that when he bought his boat it had a '64 Evinrude on it?
When I bought my boat it had a 1973 Mercury on it, but the boat was a 1986 Mirrocraft and I bought it in 1990.
What's the difference?
Fuel and oil costs these days are nuts, I filled my truck up on Tues on my way to the shore, it took $185 to fill the tank. That's only 37 gallons. When I bought the truck 21 years ago it took about $60 to fill it.

Gas was right around $4 in that area, it varies a lot depending on what road your on but its been going up fast here lately.
The news keeps saying to stock up on fuel because it's going to soar past $5 gallon by the fourth of July.
My guess is that they're gonna run the price up for the holiday and it'll back off a bit but then go back up for Labor Day again.
It'll stay high till election day when they'll do something to lower it to make themselves look good. It happens every time.

View attachment 121157

I've had trouble finding plain old 2 stroke oil here, all the Walmarts here seem to have in stock is injector oil and small bottles of off brand 'All Purpose' 2 stroke oil.
I have not seen the blue jugs of Walmart brand TCW-3 in a few years locally.
I did buy a few in DE back in March for $24.99 but I also go that way on occasion anyhow. I would never just drive that far just to get oil, I think I'd start using motor oil first.

The Yamaha dealer has their brand oil and a few high dollar synthetic types, The Yamalube TCW-3 dino oil is $44.99 at the dealer, a few bucks less online through Amazon.
I have a few partial jugs of older Pennzoil. Walmart used to sell it for $24.99/gal here but I've not seen it in years. Other than dealers and a few marina stores, there's not many choices left locally when it comes to oil. You can order it online and have it sent to your local Walmart but so far none that I ordered as materialized. I order it and never get a notice that it arrived. Most of the time if I pay online, it'll post the pending payment, then a few days later it'll show as "Your item has been back ordered" or it'll show "Insufficient Quantities Available" when I try to check out.
I gave up trying to deal with them here. When I'm in FL its a different ballgame, the store in Stuart, FL is great, they have a huge fishing and boating area and its always well stocked, here your lucky to find a pack of hooks or some cheap line, and maybe package of rope or a package of boat letters. They used to stock fuel tanks, anchors, trailer bearings, rollers, winches, etc. but no more. The whole section is about 12 ft long or so and in total disarray. Other areas of the stores are just as bad, with bare shelves, broken items, wrong prices on items, and really long lines to checkout because they only open one register or direct you to self checkout.

This has been a hard state to deal with since I moved here, boating, fishing, hunting and such all seem to be an issue since around 2019 or so. It seems that they've done as much as they can here to make boating and fishing more expensive and more difficult. Nearly every town used to have a DMV where you could renew your paperwork every year, now you have to do it online or drive hours away because they closed many of the locations and made a good many of them specialized locations to deal with the new driver's license program. Since I have a commercial license, both for marine and truck, I'm forced to go to the main DMV office to renew. If you didn't maintain your boat's registration through the pandemic, (a year when they closed all the ramps and waterways and all the DMV offices), you now have to make an appointment at a "Regional" office that handles only In Person' new or expired renewals. Then when they do, they want you to pay for the back years that the boat or trailer sat unused as well. Not paying it breaks the paper trail on the trailer, which isn't titled here, so it then becomes nearly unsellable.
They wanted me to pay $257.50 this year to renew my one boat which I hadn't renewed since 2019.
This is for 2024, plus four 'back' years for the boat and trailer, $28/yr for the boat, and $23.50/yr for the trailer.
Its no wonder so many of the boats you do see don't have current registrations. I'd tag it in PA but that would mean a title change and charge for that as well. I totally do not see why they should charge you for past, unused years. Especially since it was their fault in the first place when they closed all the boat ramps and banned recreational activities in 2020. Surely they didn't expect us to pay for something we couldn't use?

The national average is actually going down. Your local pain may vary with local and state variables.

The point of illustrating the inflation calculator is to emphasize that one cannot compare any value today to any value in the past without first converting for a legitimate comparison.

 

[LaqueRatt]

In my neck of the woods, this would not draw much interest or be worth a lot. I don't think I'd be able to sell parts from it either unless I wanted to deal with fleabay, which I no longer use. They keep ripping me off by siding with shady buyers. I fix these up for fun and if lucky I get my money back out of them. I sure don't make much if any. People seem to want 4 strokes now.

 

[Seafarer]

Your $32 fuel day in 1964 was actually way more expensive comparatively than today's $80 day.


Also, fwiw, the Walmart/ oil stories are wild.
Here in Tennessee, the shelves are stocked with variety.
$18.74 per gal for Super Tech
$21.74 Pennzoil
$26.42 Valvoline
$33.98 Quicksilver

I don't know where you got that from me saying I bought a boat with a 1964 18hp on it?
I never said when I bought my boat, I just said that when I first bought it had a 1964 motor that sucked fuel. Every two stroke I've ever owned as been hard on fuel. The only boat that was better than expected was a 15ft Glastron that I had with a 1990 115hp Evinrude on it. That thing would run all day on 5 gallons, but it had two 12 gallon tanks. The fuel usage went up drastically with another passenger. It did real well on shorter runs if I limited each tank to 6 gallons.
I suppose a lot of the fuel usage I'm seeing is due to weight, when I'm alone in my 16ft boat, its sitting bow high with my weight at the stern plus the motor. I can stretch the fuel line out and get the tank just in front of the middle bench.


Not many small boat guys here have four strokes, I see them on occasion on the two redstricted lakes, but most are earlier four strokes, but on a small lake that weight isn't a big issue so long as the boat can hold it. Two strokes though are way more common and way faster.
My 9.9hp 4 stroke weighs nearly the same as my 25hp two stroke. A two stroke just gives you more bang for your buck. A good used 2 stroke can be had for under a grand, but they want over $1,500 for a used small four stroke. Then there's the issue of weight on some boats. A buddy down the street has a late 80's Yamaha fours stroke and its nearly impossible to get parts for now. There's no issues getting parts for and old OMC motor though.

Most of the boats I see on the lakes here are 12 and 14ft 36" wide jon boats, so a four stroke would likely sink them with two guys onboard. The second most common boat is a 14ft V hull, mostly for the river, and those with 16ft boats tend to go further down stream or into the saltwater more. After that its big, mostly stern drive boats for pulling tubes and such, but those have been mostly absent this year except on Memorial day weekend for a bit.
If gas and oil don't come down, and if they don't fix the registration issues here there won't be many boats left because most of us can't afford it anymore. Maybe that's their goal, but I don't know why they just spend millions dredging out the river here, all the commercial traffic upstream is gone, every boat yard up that way has been closed up and sold off to build low income complexes. Digging out a channel did basically nothing but maybe reduce the chance of flooding in a storm.

 

[LDUBS]

Gas was $6

"When I first bought my 16ft boat it had a 1964 Evinrude 18hp on it,"

It sounded more to me like that when he bought his boat it had a '64 Evinrude on it?
When I bought my boat it had a 1973 Mercury on it, but the boat was a 1986 Mirrocraft and I bought it in 1990.
What's the difference?
Fuel and oil costs these days are nuts, I filled my truck up on Tues on my way to the shore, it took $185 to fill the tank. That's only 37 gallons. When I bought the truck 21 years ago it took about $60 to fill it.

Gas was right around $4 in that area, it varies a lot depending on what road your on but its been going up fast here lately.
The news keeps saying to stock up on fuel because it's going to soar past $5 gallon by the fourth of July.
My guess is that they're gonna run the price up for the holiday and it'll back off a bit but then go back up for Labor Day again.
It'll stay high till election day when they'll do something to lower it to make themselves look good. It happens every time.

View attachment 121157

I've had trouble finding plain old 2 stroke oil here, all the Walmarts here seem to have in stock is injector oil and small bottles of off brand 'All Purpose' 2 stroke oil.
I have not seen the blue jugs of Walmart brand TCW-3 in a few years locally.
I did buy a few in DE back in March for $24.99 but I also go that way on occasion anyhow. I would never just drive that far just to get oil, I think I'd start using motor oil first.

The Yamaha dealer has their brand oil and a few high dollar synthetic types, The Yamalube TCW-3 dino oil is $44.99 at the dealer, a few bucks less online through Amazon.
I have a few partial jugs of older Pennzoil. Walmart used to sell it for $24.99/gal here but I've not seen it in years. Other than dealers and a few marina stores, there's not many choices left locally when it comes to oil. You can order it online and have it sent to your local Walmart but so far none that I ordered as materialized. I order it and never get a notice that it arrived. Most of the time if I pay online, it'll post the pending payment, then a few days later it'll show as "Your item has been back ordered" or it'll show "Insufficient Quantities Available" when I try to check out.
I gave up trying to deal with them here. When I'm in FL its a different ballgame, the store in Stuart, FL is great, they have a huge fishing and boating area and its always well stocked, here your lucky to find a pack of hooks or some cheap line, and maybe package of rope or a package of boat letters. They used to stock fuel tanks, anchors, trailer bearings, rollers, winches, etc. but no more. The whole section is about 12 ft long or so and in total disarray. Other areas of the stores are just as bad, with bare shelves, broken items, wrong prices on items, and really long lines to checkout because they only open one register or direct you to self checkout.

This has been a hard state to deal with since I moved here, boating, fishing, hunting and such all seem to be an issue since around 2019 or so. It seems that they've done as much as they can here to make boating and fishing more expensive and more difficult. Nearly every town used to have a DMV where you could renew your paperwork every year, now you have to do it online or drive hours away because they closed many of the locations and made a good many of them specialized locations to deal with the new driver's license program. Since I have a commercial license, both for marine and truck, I'm forced to go to the main DMV office to renew. If you didn't maintain your boat's registration through the pandemic, (a year when they closed all the ramps and waterways and all the DMV offices), you now have to make an appointment at a "Regional" office that handles only In Person' new or expired renewals. Then when they do, they want you to pay for the back years that the boat or trailer sat unused as well. Not paying it breaks the paper trail on the trailer, which isn't titled here, so it then becomes nearly unsellable.
They wanted me to pay $257.50 this year to renew my one boat which I hadn't renewed since 2019.
This is for 2024, plus four 'back' years for the boat and trailer, $28/yr for the boat, and $23.50/yr for the trailer.
Its no wonder so many of the boats you do see don't have current registrations. I'd tag it in PA but that would mean a title change and charge for that as well. I totally do not see why they should charge you for past, unused years. Especially since it was their fault in the first place when they closed all the boat ramps and banned recreational activities in 2020. Surely they didn't expect us to pay for something we couldn't use?

For Walmart out of stock stuff, I've ordered online with delivery to the nearest store for pick up. That might be an option for your 2 stroke oil.

Your boat registration fee is higher than ours, though our governor tried to increase some of the boat registration fees by 400% in this year's budget. I'm not sure where that stands, but suspect it didn't happen because I haven't heard anything new about it. Car registrations can be put on hold if the vehicle is non-operational. California, and it sounds like NJ, does not allow boat registrations to lapse because of non-operation. So even if the boat sits the annual registration is required. Let it lapse and back registration is due, like the position you find yourself in.

We also have to pay an unsecured personal property tax on boats (a "luxury tax" in reality). Mine is over $200 per year. Last time they tried to increase the value of my boat to 24% more than I paid for it in 2018. They said because of market conditions. I challenged and got a reduction. Ba$tard$ are out to grab money anywhere they can. Current thinking seems to be everyone should be happy living hand to mouth.

 

[seahorse]

For Walmart out of stock stuff, I've ordered online with delivery to the nearest store for pick up. That might be an option for your 2 stroke oil.

Your boat registration fee is higher than ours, though our governor tried to increase some of the boat registration fees by 400% in this year's budget. I'm not sure where that stands, but suspect it didn't happen because I haven't heard anything new about it. Car registrations can be put on hold if the vehicle is non-operational. California, and it sounds like NJ, does not allow boat registrations to lapse because of non-operation. So even if the boat sits the annual registration is required. Let it lapse and back registration is due, like the position you find yourself in.

We also have to pay an unsecured personal property tax on boats (a "luxury tax" in reality). Mine is over $200 per year. Last time they tried to increase the value of my boat to 24% more than I paid for it in 2018. They said because of market conditions. I challenged and got a reduction. Ba$tard$ are out to grab money anywhere they can. Current thinking seems to be everyone should be happy living hand to mouth.

For where I'm at, the local Walmart is pretty screwed up too. The problem with ordering items not in stock, if the online price doesn't coincide with the price in that store the online ordered item just never shows up. If you pay online, you get an email saying that the item is back ordered or the order is cancelled and you eventually get a refund. So far, in the 13 years we've had a Walmart here, I'm 1 for 28 in getting items ordered online to the store.
Twice I as told that the items I had special ordered had been sold to someone else by mistake the same day I got the notice they had arrived.
For me, that pretty much just left me never wanting to deal with Wamart again. That plus all the empty shelves and lack of common items I used to buy there now has just made me stop going altogether because the trip is always a waste of time. The final straw for me was then they told me that the bakery items that were marked down half price as 'day old' were for those who really needed them, not me. I had grabbed 6 loafs of in store baked bread marked down to 33¢ each and was told at the register that by taking that many I was 'depriving' their usually customer of those discounted items. I used to buy them, then freeze them and use them for french toast or sandwiches over time, it saved me multiple trips there having to wait in line for an hour to check out. I hadn't been there for several years after that but went there a few months ago for a battery for my truck and saw that their batteries were now made in Mexico and the price had climbed to $182 each. I also needed a deep cycle for my boat but they had none. I went to a local parts store and got the batteries for $115/each made in the USA. for the same warranty. Not being able to find a deal on a deep cycle I opted to buy a pair of Harbor Freight Li Ion jump starters and run those to power my boat's electronics, which proved to be a two fold improvement. Not only did I gain a ton of run time, I also saved 60+lbs in the boat not needing to carry an 80lb Group 27 lead acid battery.
My motor has both recoil and electric start, and that jump start pack will start my 35hp motor dozens of times without issue and if it failed to start it, I can easily just pull the rope. The motor doesn't have a charging system so nothing changed that way.

As to the orignal issue here, I put the 18hp on the back burner for now, I've got a line on a few spare lower units that will likely give me some spare parts, meaning I only need to by seals and maybe a pair of coils then give this thing a proper paint job.

 

[LDUBS]

Oh man. If I had that experience I wouldn't want to do business with them either.

 

[oilsmoke]

The national average is actually going down. Your local pain may vary with local and state variables.

The point of illustrating the inflation calculator is to emphasize that one cannot compare any value today to any value in the past without first converting for a legitimate comparison.

Fuel here has been going up, not down, its gone up in big jumps since a week before Memorial day, it always does but this year its going up in 50¢ increments not penny's at a time. There used to be a law saying they couldn't raise prices more than once a day or more than 3¢ per day but that's apparently not the case because its jumped dollars per day in the recent past.

Those inflation calculators are worthless when you look at the fact that most people working the same job over the past 30 to 40 years aren't making much if any more than they were 25 years ago. Many jobs no pay less.
I worked as an A rate tech doing mostly drivablitly and transmission repairs in the mid 90's, I made the top pay at the time of $24/hr. Nearly all those old dealers are gone now, the new places pay $15/hr to start and most guys top out under $20/hr, and none will hire a guy in his 60's, (not that I'd ever go back to that, but its a good comparison that I am quite familiar with. A few local aftermarket shops and tire stores now advertise 'Top Pay' at $15/hr, which is now minimum wage. The reality is everyone works for minimum wage unless you own the company or wear a suit and tie to work. When you figure that the average mechanic in a dealer has to spend around $50k for a basic set of tools and another $30 - $40k in diagnostic software and scan tools every year, they're making far less than minimum wage. Then subtract your uniform cleaning, health insurance, gas to get to work, and in some cases they even charge you for the bay you're working in. Most these days would do better flipping burgers than fixing cars. The small engine shops are worse.
You simply can't spend $200-300 a week in groceries and $300/mo in car insurance and $500/mo in other expenses on a $350/wk take home pay. You do better just sitting home, you'll loose less money in the end. On the flip side, people also can't afford to pay $225/hr for a break job or oil change either. A simple repair now can total most cars due to the labor they charge, all while the tech isn't getting any more than when the labor was only $50/hr in the 90's. The shops are dealing with crazy epa regs, high property taxes, insane mortgage payments, and dwindling sales due to the cost of new vehicles now. I know a half dozen guys who just quit working because they couldn't afford the gas or insurance to get to work these days, let alone a car payment if your only making $15/hr and also paying to keep a home or worse yet, paying $2k/mo in rent.

What most employers here have done since the min. wage went up is to not replace guys who leave who were making higher wages, and they never move anyone up to fill those jobs, they hire new guys at min. wage and when they're no longer satisfied they usually quit and go elsewhere in hopes of a better deal. To replace them they hire someone else willing to work for min. wage. Slowly the whole place is making minimum wage. They don't care if its efficient or not, just so its cheap. And sooner or later they do find a few decent guys but they never stay long. It doesn't matter if they're fixing cars or driving a truck, there's always someone willing to work for less. Benefits are non existent at most places, if you want them, its up to you go find them. The companies also break the business up into a bunch of smaller companies so that each company can stay under the 50 person limit for not offering health insurance. Most people simply don't have it because if you work, you have to pay anywhere from $400 and up for your own health insurance monthly. If your not working it free but when you finally retire what ever amount they put into your health benefits under the state insurance pool is deducted from your Soc. Sec. total. This means that a guy who worked for 30 years at $20/hr but was put out of work at 60 will get less than $850/mo in soc sec when he's 67.
Its things like this that make guys give up on boating, fishing, or anything. They come at your from all directions these days and make sure they get 120% of whatever you have.
Back in the 90's it wasn't like this, you could make a fair wage and have enough money to go do something on your day off or to do some upgrades on your house, your whole year wasn't a struggle to pay your taxes and buy food.

I see free boats and fantastic deals all over the place lately but I simply can't afford to spend even the gas to go get them, or the trip to the DMV to deal witht he title and registration and buying it to sell may never work out if things don't improve money wise. I have some savings but it has to lave me how ever many years I have left but the cost of things now is 50 times what anyone ever thought was possible back 25 years ago.

 

[LDUBS]

Fuel here has been going up, not down, its gone up in big jumps since a week before Memorial day, it always does but this year its going up in 50¢ increments not penny's at a time. There used to be a law saying they couldn't raise prices more than once a day or more than 3¢ per day but that's apparently not the case because its jumped dollars per day in the recent past.

Gaso prices go up dollars per gallon in one day? I can't imagine that.

Those inflation calculators are worthless when you look at the fact that most people working the same job over the past 30 to 40 years aren't making much if any more than they were 25 years ago. Many jobs no pay less.

Not sure I follow this. Inflation is most harmful to those on fixed salaries over a long period of time. The inflation calculator will show the folks you describe have a whole lot less buying power than they had 25 years ago. Which I think is exactly the point you are making.

 

[lightflyer1]

I have been working the same job now for over thirty years. I make more than 4X than when I started. If I worked a job more than a few years and didn't get any increases, time for a new job and/or career! Trying to retire next year.

 

[mbullen]

At this moment I'm staring at a sign for $2.88 and reading a AAA story about the slide in averages.

Also, an inflation calculator simply shows the value of currency indexed for the time period.
Value is calculated on all those variables.

 

[LDUBS]

I have been working the same job now for over thirty years. I make more than 4X than when I started. If I worked a job more than a few years and didn't get any increases, time for a new job and/or career! Trying to retire next year.

Yeah, I don't agree with the premise that most people working the same job for 25 years are not making more than when they started. You would have to have income growth to just keep up with minimum wage increases. The real test is if standard of living is improving.

 

[freeisforme]

Yeah, I don't agree with the premise that most people working the same job for 25 years are not making more than when they started. You would have to have income growth to just keep up with minimum wage increases. The real test is if standard of living is improving.

I guess you never worked in as an auto mechanic before?
I worked from 1980 to 2007 as a dealer tech, I started out as a B rate tech at $10/hr.
By 1988 I was up to $15/hr, but 1995 I was at $20/hr and was the lowest man on the roster time wise. When a few guys retired they hired a new kid, made him a B rate tech and gave him what I was making, when I balked about not getting a raise, they said "quit", so I did. I started at a new shop at $22.50 an hour. I worked there till they went out of business four years later, when they closed up I was making $23.65. I got a job at another same brand dealer, about 20 minutes further away, and their top pay was $24/hr, but they wouldn't give me that because they had a guy there who was there longer and didn't feel it right to pay me the same amount day one. I started at $23.00. I was there for a year, then they too went bankrupt. I left there and went to a private Engine and transmission shop that did only heavy truck. I started at $24.50, but heavy truck wasn't my specialty and by then I was feeling my age a bit so when a job opened up closer to home at a dealer again I went there. They only paid $19.00 but I saved an hour drive to work. They closed up in 2004. At that point i had no choice to go to work for a different brand, which I had zero experience in or factory certifications in. They paid $17.50, but gave me a raise to $18.75 after 6 months when I got all the new certifications for that brand. In 2006 they sold out, and the new owner did not hire any of the current employees. I went to work for a little bit at a local emissions only shop, but that paid poorly due to no work, they offered $20/hr but they had no benefits, and you paid for uniforms. They shut down a week before Christmas in 2008. I decided to call it quits and went and drove a truck instead, that paid $14.50/hr to start but I didn't have to buy tools or pay for uniforms and it was close but it was hard physical work having to load the truck in the morning and unload it at night at the warehouse, mostly by hand.
After two years I was up to $18.50/hr. I did that for the same pay for 9 years, then that company closed up. When 2020 hit, there was no work, at all. I started looking around and even tried the dealers and various shops again, but the they were now paying $15.80 as top pay with no benefits, you paid for uniforms and all tools as before. They keep guys till they get fed up and find new younger guys who don't know any better, they just keep doing it over and over. No one makes more than a few cents over minimum wage now.

I got fed up a year ago with it all and just retired. All i have to show for it is a bad back, two bad ankles, lung issues from the chemicals over the years, and $150k in tools and a $24k tool box that I can't sell for more than a few hundred bucks it seems.
Five dealers I worked for had 401k plans, every one of those robbed the 401k plan broke before going under. The cost of gas, vehicles, tools, uniforms, union dues at some shops, and health issues pretty much meant there's no money being set aside, now I'm told that I'm only qualified for $850/mo in Soc. Security when the time comes in four years because they take the last 10 year average which had gotten lower and lower over the years. I can't take full SS until 2029 when I'll be 67.

Gas here this morning was $3.91 for regular, $3.88 for diesel. It was down $.02 for Sun and Mon. at that one station but others range from that to $4.03 for regular. With the fourth of July coming, I suppose it'll go even higher. Filling my truck takes about $90 or so if I let it run down to 1/4 tank, my car holds 21 gal, so when the low fuel light comes on it takes about $72.

 

[LaqueRatt]

I also could cite examples of professions where the wages have not really gone up in my entire life. In IN the minimum wage hasn't changed in decades. It's still less than $8/hr.

My first real job after HS paid $700 take home every 2 weeks. This was an entry level position. Most entry level positions in IN still do not pay that much.

Another example. My Mother bless her soul was in the awful position of having to make the payment on a brand new house by herself for a few years. She was able to do so and pay for the needs of a family of 3 with the pay from her job as a cashier at the local grocery store.

People under 40 have no idea what an easy life we once had in the USA. It now takes 4 people working to afford to buy a home or sometimes just to rent one. Something that was easily accomplished by one wage earner with a modest position.

Our society started it's downward spiral when in the early 70s moms had to go to work because wages were already beginning to lag inflation. With no Mom at home to keep the house clean, cook, plan finances, and teach children manners and values look what we got now. Many women work and then turn around and give the lion's share of there salary to daycare workers who then instill THEIR values upon these motherless children.

OK, I'll quit now. Just a sad state of affairs these days.

 

[LDUBS]

I guess you never worked in as an auto mechanic before?
I worked from 1980 to 2007 as a dealer tech, I started out as a B rate tech at $10/hr.
By 1988 I was up to $15/hr, but 1995 I was at $20/hr and was the lowest man on the roster time wise. When a few guys retired they hired a new kid, made him a B rate tech and gave him what I was making, when I balked about not getting a raise, they said "quit", so I did. I started at a new shop at $22.50 an hour. I worked there till they went out of business four years later, when they closed up I was making $23.65. I got a job at another same brand dealer, about 20 minutes further away, and their top pay was $24/hr, but they wouldn't give me that because they had a guy there who was there longer and didn't feel it right to pay me the same amount day one. I started at $23.00. I was there for a year, then they too went bankrupt. I left there and went to a private Engine and transmission shop that did only heavy truck. I started at $24.50, but heavy truck wasn't my specialty and by then I was feeling my age a bit so when a job opened up closer to home at a dealer again I went there. They only paid $19.00 but I saved an hour drive to work. They closed up in 2004. At that point i had no choice to go to work for a different brand, which I had zero experience in or factory certifications in. They paid $17.50, but gave me a raise to $18.75 after 6 months when I got all the new certifications for that brand. In 2006 they sold out, and the new owner did not hire any of the current employees. I went to work for a little bit at a local emissions only shop, but that paid poorly due to no work, they offered $20/hr but they had no benefits, and you paid for uniforms. They shut down a week before Christmas in 2008. I decided to call it quits and went and drove a truck instead, that paid $14.50/hr to start but I didn't have to buy tools or pay for uniforms and it was close but it was hard physical work having to load the truck in the morning and unload it at night at the warehouse, mostly by hand.
After two years I was up to $18.50/hr. I did that for the same pay for 9 years, then that company closed up. When 2020 hit, there was no work, at all. I started looking around and even tried the dealers and various shops again, but the they were now paying $15.80 as top pay with no benefits, you paid for uniforms and all tools as before. They keep guys till they get fed up and find new younger guys who don't know any better, they just keep doing it over and over. No one makes more than a few cents over minimum wage now.

I got fed up a year ago with it all and just retired. All i have to show for it is a bad back, two bad ankles, lung issues from the chemicals over the years, and $150k in tools and a $24k tool box that I can't sell for more than a few hundred bucks it seems.
Five dealers I worked for had 401k plans, every one of those robbed the 401k plan broke before going under. The cost of gas, vehicles, tools, uniforms, union dues at some shops, and health issues pretty much meant there's no money being set aside, now I'm told that I'm only qualified for $850/mo in Soc. Security when the time comes in four years because they take the last 10 year average which had gotten lower and lower over the years. I can't take full SS until 2029 when I'll be 67.

Gas here this morning was $3.91 for regular, $3.88 for diesel. It was down $.02 for Sun and Mon. at that one station but others range from that to $4.03 for regular. With the fourth of July coming, I suppose it'll go even higher. Filling my truck takes about $90 or so if I let it run down to 1/4 tank, my car holds 21 gal, so when the low fuel light comes on it takes about $72.

Nope, never worked as an auto mechanic. During the first 10 years your salary doubled. Better than inflation over that same time. After that it sounds like the wheels came off in your industry. Five different 401K plans being robbed is criminal.

 

[LDUBS]

I also could cite examples of professions where the wages have not really gone up in my entire life. In IN the minimum wage hasn't changed in decades. It's still less than $8/hr.

My first real job after HS paid $700 take home every 2 weeks. This was an entry level position. Most entry level positions in IN still do not pay that much.

Another example. My Mother bless her soul was in the awful position of having to make the payment on a brand new house by herself for a few years. She was able to do so and pay for the needs of a family of 3 with the pay from her job as a cashier at the local grocery store.

People under 40 have no idea what an easy life we once had in the USA. It now takes 4 people working to afford to buy a home or sometimes just to rent one. Something that was easily accomplished by one wage earner with a modest position.

Our society started it's downward spiral when in the early 70s moms had to go to work because wages were already beginning to lag inflation. With no Mom at home to keep the house clean, cook, plan finances, and teach children manners and values look what we got now. Many women work and then turn around and give the lion's share of there salary to daycare workers who then instill THEIR values upon these motherless children.

OK, I'll quit now. Just a sad state of affairs these days.

Indiana is one of the states that uses the Federal minimum wage. It has more than doubled the last two decades but when adjusted for inflation is actually less purchasing power.

When you say we had it easy, to me that means opportunity was there for hard working productive people. It used to mean a home and decent life. I agree, now days both parents working can find it hard to get ahead.

 

[LaqueRatt]

True, but there's a lot more to it. Used to be if you were hardup for money you could sell apples along the road. Cut people's hair. Fix small engines. Open a restaurant in your home even. Most of the time with no government intervention and very little in the way of licenses and taxes. Now kids need a permit to sell lemonade.

As a small business owner for most of my life I can tell you it's 3x more costly and 10x harder to succeed. The feds/libs/dems would rather people lay around and collect a check. That way they control you and in essence are buying your vote. This type of ideology just can't work over the long term, but currently it's working out very nice for the politicians. Those on both sides of the aisle.

 

[1pc@atime]

I drove a truck for the past 20 years, and worked in a machine shop before that. There's no retirement because none of these companies stay in business for more than a few years. The laat company I worked for closed up last year after 10 years in business, they went under when their two biggest contracts both also went under. 91 persons out of work. Top pay there was $21/hr after 5 years, $18 to start and they required 4 years experience. I made okay money but had to work 80 hours a week to get it. There are no more places that'll hire a guy in his 60's now, they all want kids for min. wage of $15/hr, then when they want more money they find reason to fire them and hire someone new.
In 1995 I was making $28/hr, in the machine shop after 15 years there They closed up when the owner died suddenly, shot by his hooker). The wife fired everyone the following payday and wrote everyone bad checks. We never got paid. The next place lasted only 7 months, they moved 200 miles south to avoid a min. wage increase at the time to $7.25/hr.
I never worked at a similar shop after that because they all only pay minimum wage. I started driving truck and was at $25/hr in 1999. By 2019, I had been through 11 companies, all of which had closed up or moved out of state. No one was hiring during 2020, so I went without any income. Since I 'refused' employment at the last company who moved 2 hrs away to another state I didn't qualify. In late 2021 I got hired by a new company who serviced a larger company who did mostly Amazon last mile deliveries. There were no benefits, (Never had them before, anywhere), and they paid $18.50 to start, but they upped me to the max of $21.50 after two months when they saw I was reliable and could drive any truck.
I don't think they were ever profitable though, they did no maintenance to the trucks, and took on work that no one else considered worth while. They blamed closing on the loss of two contracts and those two companies blamed their closing on issues getting freight across the border.
Now there are no companies left that pay more than minimum wage and I'm too old and too beat up to start over. I can no longer pass the CDL physical due to several health issues an ended up on Soc. Sec. at the minimum of $950/mo for the rest of my life.

I boat because I need to eat, and there are fish in the water. It used to be fish was free food but now with the cost of gas and oil, and the hassles getting a boat registered here these days after the pandemic its getting really expensive to take the boat out but there's no place to fish for free along the shore that has fish worth catching. All the piers, parks and beaches require annual membership so that's out.
I sometimes get the feeling that they don't want us to boat or fish here. They make getting near the water expensive and your only allowed to keep one or two fish of most species these days. Even trash fish now have limits on them.
Its all not even counting what it costs here to insure a pickup truck. My 22 year old truck costs me $171.50 to register and $2,988 a year to insure. I could save $190 a year if I dropped full coverage but if I do they told me they won't insure me because I have no credit history because I haven't had a loan in 44 years. I bought everything I own for cash because I couldn't afford the interest.

There are lots of late model boats for sale, and the old stuff just sits. It seems those who are buying want new, and the rest are broke these days.

I'm finding late model motors out for trash with barely anything wrong with them. I just brought home a Honda 20hp from 2009 with a broken cover and two broken spark plugs. It ran with two used plugs, even pumped water. The cheapest cover I found was $200. For now it gets fiberglass and a spray bomb I guess.

The fact that it sat all day on someones trash pile with no takers is what tells the real story here. The fact that not a single boat person drove by that and thought to grab it off the trash pile. It was standing up leaning against the mailbox with a huge FREE or trash sign on it.
Its got strong compression and fired right up once I replaced the two smashed spark plugs.
(I borrowed two plugs from the 9.9hp I got two weeks ago from the trash men here).
In five months I've trash picked a Mercury 9.9, a Yamaha 9.9, a Honda 9.9, and the Honda 20hp, all four strokes, and I picked up or traded for four 9.9hp and 15hp Force and Chrysler motors, and four OMC 9.9/15hp motors.
15 years ago any used motor would cost you a grand or more, now they either want $2k or they throw them away regardless of what it may be.
eBay has been dead for months, a friend does a lot of listing and has 4,000 items listed and not a sale since May, Facebook Market place is a waste of time, no one answers messages and things just sit there unsold. When you list, all you get is scammers wanting to send a money order, and CL gets zero replies, and hasn't for about 4 or so years.

There are more boats and motors for sale than buyers and there's always someone selling something for dirt cheap so anything your selling has to be super cheap or it won't sell, if they don't feel your taking a big loss, they don't want it.