Marine Oil?

[LaqueRatt]

Got a quick question gentlemen. I always run 2 stroke marine oil in my boats, because why not? I do think though that normal 2 stroke oil may be OK. Thing is when I bought the Crestliner late last fall the guy was getting out of boating and loaded me down with every dang item he ever used with the boat......including a nifty survival knife!......well you never know right? Sorry, off track again. He gave me most of a case of small bottles of 2 stroke oil and I'm pretty sure that's what he was running in the Merc on the back. Because I don't do a whole lot of chainsawing this oil is just sitting around and I keep buying outboard oil. What say you? Run the stuff or not?

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Chain saws are air cooled and outboards are water cooled the oils are formulated differently.

 

[Crazyboat]

If someone here is a marine mechanic, I'd wait for their response, if not ask a service tech.

 

[airshot]

There is a difference between the two types of oil. Doesn't mean the chainsaw oil is bad for your OB motor, just that TCW3 is better !! Just the opposite is the TCW3 marine oil can be used in any two stroke. Many years back I questioned the same thing so I wrote to Pennzoil for an explanation as I have used there two stroke oils for decades !! I don't remember the science behind the two but the TCW3 is the better stuff and can be used in any two stroke ( referring to the Pennzoil brand) , while the chainsaw oil can be used in a pinch, in water cooled engines, long term use could shorten an OB ( water cooled) life expectancy. Oil is not that expensive, why take a chance ?? Some folks have their favorite brands, most all quality name brand oils are fine and will work great. Back in my youth days, I worked at a small marine repair shop. The owner always used Pennzoil and it has stuck with me....never an issue at all with it in over 50 years of using it in everything two stroke, mixed or injected.

 

[LaqueRatt]

I'm a Valvoline guy. Not for any good reason. My father used it. Didn't Pennzoil have quality issues way back when though? Or was that Quaker State? Stick with what works, right? If I poured all those itty bitty bottles into a Pennzoil qt, maybe boat won't know the difference?

 

[MrGiggles]

If you're premixing for an older outboard, I'd say you're safe. That chainsaw oil is likely quite a bit better than whatever was around when that outboard was new.

I wouldn't run it in anything with oil injection, oils not designed for injection won't flow through the screens/filters and you'll be rebuilding the powerhead. I've even had cheaper "house brand" TCW3 oil gum up on me.

I found this and thought it was relevant, post #16. I tried to cut and paste the text but the character limit here won't allow it.

https://forums.iboats.com/threads/tc-w3-read-this.468161/

 

[mirrocraft16]

I used to fish with a guy who back in 1973 bought a new Mercury 9.8hp motor and a 14ft Starcraft boat.
He ran it twice a week when the weather permitted on the river and one local lake.
When he got too old he gave me the boat and motor, which was still in decent shape and the motor still looked new. For most of that motor's life it ran on CT (Central Tractor branded), all purpose two stoke oil. He had bought a massive amount of it for real cheap and its all that motor ever saw.
The stuff was green and thick and in tall narrow white bottles with pictures of tractors, chainsaws, and boats on the printed label.
He also was never very precise in his measuring of the oil. His theory was one bottle per tank, and he had several tanks, all different sizes ranging from 2.5 to 6 gallons.

When it became mine, I figured I'd give it a new start and I pulled the covers off the power head, checked the compression, which was still really good, and I went through the carb and resealed the lower unit.
What i found inside was a motor that was coked up pretty bad with thick sticky oil residue, nothing abrasive but the stuff was like glue. I all but had to soak it in a parts cleaner for a month to get it clean again. I switched over to running modern oil in it at 8oz to a 3 gallon fuel tank. It was still running like new when I sold it two years ago after getting a deal on a new Mercury four stroke.

If you go far enough back, into the 1950's, they just called for 30wt motor oil at 24:1 in most motors, there wasn't any special air cooled or water cooled oils. I have my grandfathers old McCulloch chainsaw that he ran on waste oil and gas since he bought it in '54. It still runs and has strong compression. I had it fired up the other day to show someone. (An old 430 Bow Saw).
It don't look like much but its 100% mechanically after years of cutting cord wood on a farm.

 

[airshot]

I'm a Valvoline guy. Not for any good reason. My father used it. Didn't Pennzoil have quality issues way back when though? Or was that Quaker State? Stick with what works, right? If I poured all those itty bitty bottles into a Pennzoil qt, maybe boat won't know the difference?

Quacker was the one with issues, in my area, Valvoline makes the Walmart oil products. Walmart uses major mfgrs across the country depending on where they are. From all my research, the Super Tech products have always tested very well and I use it in my vehicles. Only stuck with Pennzoil in my two stroke oil, just from habit I guess. Do be aware that Penzoil makes two different TCW3 oils...one is a full synthetic for newer perfrmance engines and the other is the standard TCW3 semi blend. I can only assume other mfgrs have the same to keep up with market demands.

 

[LaqueRatt]

Interesting. Does it even matter if we run synth or not in these old 2 strokes?

BTW in my area, NW Indiana, Valvo makes NAPA oil which I use in our SRX almost exclusively. On sale it's like half the price of regular Valvoline. Thanks for the headsup with the Valvo/Walmart connection. I'll have to look into that.

A bit off track, but Walmart batteries are rebranded Die Hard/Interstate products. You almost can't get a better or CHEAPER battery anywhere else.

 

[airshot]

Interesting. Does it even matter if we run synth or not in these old 2 strokes?

BTW in my area, NW Indiana, Valvo makes NAPA oil which I use in our SRX almost exclusively. On sale it's like half the price of regular Valvoline. Thanks for the headsup with the Valvo/Walmart connection. I'll have to look into that.

A bit off track, but Walmart batteries are rebranded Die Hard/Interstate products. You almost can't get a better or CHEAPER battery anywhere else.

Like the oil, WalleyWorld uses different suppliers in different areas. In our area they use the Excide mfgr and while their batteries are not top notch, they are a good value for the price. My group31 agm batteries have lasted for four years and still going strong, at 120 something dollars each I am not gonna complain !

 

[LDUBS]

Like the oil, WalleyWorld uses different suppliers in different areas. In our area they use the Excide mfgr and while their batteries are not top notch, they are a good value for the price. My group31 agm batteries have lasted for four years and still going strong, at 120 something dollars each I am not gonna complain !

I got my Grp 31 at Sam's club, which I guess is the same as Walmart. Battery label is Duracell. I think I paid about $120 also. It is 3 days shy of being 4 years old and acts like it did on the day I got it. Only complaint I have is the weight (65#). I guess great minds think alike! Haha.

 

[thill]

Give the chainsaw oil to a friend who may use it and buy a couple of gallons of Penzoil XLF Premium Plus Semi-synthetic 2-stroke oil. Very good stuff unless you have a direct injection engine. Very reasonably priced, too.

 

[LaqueRatt]

Like the oil, WalleyWorld uses different suppliers in different areas. In our area they use the Excide mfgr and while their batteries are not top notch, they are a good value for the price. My group31 agm batteries have lasted for four years and still going strong, at 120 something dollars each I am not gonna complain !

In my area Walmart uses Clarion products and has for at least a decade. Clarion=Johnson Controls=Globe Union. The batteries themselves seem unchanged in the last 40 years. Excide has never made good batteries, nor has General battery.

 

[freeisforme]

Clarion is not Johnson Controls.
Interstate batteries were made by Johnson controls until around 2018.
Wanting to get into other things Johnson Controls, who at the time had a contract to supply Walmart batteries, sold their lead acid division to Exide, who at the time no longer made batteries after a bankruptcy some years prior got them out of the mfg. of batteries. Exide bought the rights to the name not the location or the plant.
Batteries now made by Clarion, the division brand that took on Interstate, and various OEM contracts, including Motorcraft and AC Delco, makes its batteries at various locations, some in Canada, and in various other plants around the world.
They are not the same battery that was being made by Johnson Controls and the country of manufacture can vary but location and battery group or size.
I did buy an AC Delco battery for my one truck and so far it seems fine but they no longer come with long warranties, the warranty for a wet type lead acid battery, which most vehicles are designed to charge, is 3 years. The longer warranties are on AGM types (Absorbed Glass Mat). These don't always do well in an older charging system as they require a different charge rate.

From what I'm seeing, at least on the east coast, the only battery company still making a good solid old school lead acid battery here is East Penn in PA, the makers of Deka, Federal, some Diehard and some Napa batteries.
For a bit, when Interstate first sold, we saw some East Penn batteries sold under the Everstart Maxx name. I've got two in my diesel truck and so far they've lasted two years longer than any batteries before them.

Batteries at my local Walmart have various origin countries on them, I've seen Mexico, Canada, Israel, Austria, Taiwan, Malaysia, and China on various batteries but in the last four years, since the pandemic, battery inventory at Walmart has been almost non existent. Which is why I ended up buying the AC Delco battery for my gas truck.

I was there last week and they had about four batteries on the rack and none were common sizes or anything that fit any of my vehicles, but the whole store lacks inventory and they blame it on 'Supply Chain issues" but a Walmart 12 miles away is fully stocked, as are all the other stores.

 

[LaqueRatt]

You realize Clarion now owns JC right? Which previously bought out GU. I haven't looked this week, but last time was in Walmart the racks were filled with the same exact batteries I've been using for decades.

 

[airshot]

In my area Walmart uses Clarion products and has for at least a decade. Clarion=Johnson Controls=Globe Union. The batteries themselves seem unchanged in the last 40 years. Excide has never made good batteries, nor has General battery.

My worst luck has been with Johnson control batteries, never lasted even for two years. My Walleye works beside have been great, 4 years and going strong. The old ones went almost 6 years, for 120 bucks can't beat'em.. Interstate are twice the cost and the few I have owned over the years never lasted more than three years. Had one replaced under warranty 3 times, then they just refunded my money. By s it depends on your luck....

 

[Seafarer]

Not really, Clarios was a brand or company that was created by Exide after Johnson Controls sold their battery division. Johnson Controls did not sell out or become Clarion as a whole. Clarion is not the same as old Johnson Controls. At least that's how the stock holders report shows it. JCI Power Solutions sold out in May 2019 to the Brookfield group, owners of Exide which was renamed Clarion. JC, based in Ireland, primarily is a security fire control, and HVAC company. More recently they have acquired ADT.
They did not buy the plant or manufacturing faciltiy but did move much of the equipment to various locations, one being Mexico. Clarios has no association with the current Johnson controls and is a new company formed out of the buyout of JCI's battery division.
In short, the batteries showing up in Walmart are NOT the same batteries that were being made under JCI, they are made at various locations under the ownership of the new company.
Walmart buys from various battery manufacturers, much of which is likely determined by proximity. Whether or not all of those manufacturers are part of the new Clarios group is yet to be seen but from what I've seen on the shelves here their batteries are coming from all over the place. As an example, at my local WM, the group 65 batteries were made in Canada, the group 51 batteries were made in Taiwan, the one group 56 battery had was marked made in Austria, and several universal type group 34 batteries were marked Mexico. Before 'Clarios' was formed JCI batteries were made in mainly four locations in the USA, (DE, OH, MO and GA.) Lead acid batteries for the most part are a very regional item due to weight and shipping costs. Clarios is based in Milwaukee and Glendale. The Middletown DE facility was rebranded Clarios.
Brookfield is an investment firm with roots in Quebec, Canada.
Clarios has no ties to the current Johnson Controls.

What made little sense to me was that less than two years prior to JC selling off their power division, they dumped $450m into it, then turned around and sold it off. They had just made a major investment to modernize and expand it then they sold it to pursue other parts of their business.

Interstate became part of JC in '78 when JC acquired Globe-Union batteries.
What I don;'t like about the new Clarios is that where the batteries are being made is often unclear. While they bought out the name, and much of the manfacturing division from JC, as soon as the new batteries started showing up both the warranty and country of origin changed on many batteries.
Gone are the long term warranties. The longest warranty I could find on one locally was 3 years, no pro-rate replacement. Gone are the 60 month guarantees and the cost has increased significantly.

Apparently the lessened competition has also driven up costs on other batteries with Deka under East Penn nearly doubling the cost of most batteries here.
I priced new batteries for my diesel truck and was quoted $561 for two new Deka batteries, where as the Clarios made Motorcraft and AC Delco batteries were $115 to $130. The issue I found was that the Clarios battery, like Interstate before it, doesn't meet the same rating specs as the East Penn battery.

 

[LDUBS]

I saw Exide batteries at the Home Depot earlier today. Wouldn't have even noticed except for this thread.

 

[airshot]

I saw Exide batteries at the Home Depot earlier today. Wouldn't have even noticed except for this thread.

Stickers are cheap, to easy to just put a sticker on whatever they have !!

 

[LDUBS]

Stickers are cheap, to easy to just put a sticker on whatever they have !!

Apparently the labels bounce around owners like a ping pong ball. It really is all Greek to me.