Switch Panel Location

[davidj65]

I have a very spartan Alumacraft v-14 and am looking to set up a basic DC system: nav lights, anchor light, fish finder, and some night fishing lights. There isn't an obvious spot to place the setup. Battery, main switch, fuse block and switch panel. There are a couple storage pods with hinged lids that fit a battery perfectly, and I was considering placing the main switch/ fuse block/ground bus in the port side pod, cutting a hole in the aft side of it and installing the switch panel there. It isn't the easiest access to the fuse block, but it protects the battery (I'd install angle aluminum stock to create a lip that closes over the sides of the pod to waterproof it a little better)), and is conveniently located. The only obvious down side that I can see is that the pod actually will hold two group 27 batteries, and while I'm not planning on using two house batteries at the moment there, it would be nice to keep that as an option.

I thought maybe there was an off the shelf panel box that would work, but I'm not finding anything obvious. Is there any safety or other reason not to house the battery/switch.fuse block in that pod? Thanks for the suggestions. I've never done this and I'm probably missing something obvious.

 

[Ray Clark]

I've only had a boat now for four years. I've been renting boats at fishing lodges for four years before that. So, I'm not the most experienced boater in the world. That said..............

I like having the switch panel within easy reach of me while I'm at the helm. I also like having the batteries enclosed as you're planning. If it was me, I would see if I could keep the battery in that pod, and then install a piece of conduit and run the battery cables to the aft-most port-side box and put the switching and breakers on the outside face of that box so I could reach it easily while sitting at the helm.

You didn't mention anything about an onboard power bank, but again, if it was me, I'd look to put a power bank on the side of the pod containing the battery. Cut access holes lined with rubber grommets to have cables pass through the sides where they could hook to the battery.

I like the layout of your boat. You can get up and move around easily and it's got that "open floor plan."

 

[FuzzyGrub]

Nice layout and I know who to watch out for now.

Given your starboard offset seat, the port side can help balance, side to side. Two in there might be too much though. You probably have some flexiblity on what side the portable tank goes on.

Lead acid batteries out gas some hydrogen something or other. Which can be explosive. Probably not a good idea to have a possible arc producing switch in the same space. You could drill vent holes, but still might be a concern. I don't know the specific "rules" for such an installation. A sealed AGM battery might be OK.

I like Ray's idea keeping them seperate and the panel closer to the operator. Maybe mount the battery charger on the front or rear face of that bin.

 

[InSaneFisherMan]

The battery switch shall be installed close to battery.

Your battery storage as pictured fails numerous safety isses.

Attache'd is some exceptional from ABYC E-11 and E-10.

 

[alask83]

The battery switch shall be installed close to battery.

Your battery storage as pictured fails numerous safety isses.

Attache'd is some exceptional from ABYC E-11 and E-10.

Is this the switch you are referring?

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Disc...lt+shut+off+switch&qid=1709573283&sr=8-9&th=1

 

[FuzzyGrub]

The battery switch shall be installed close to battery.

Your battery storage as pictured fails numerous safety isses.

Attache'd is some exceptional from ABYC E-11 and E-10.

I think a manual reset breaker surffices as a cut-off switch. That is what is on our new 2022 Pontoon, anyway. Add a battery box, some post protectors, and some side vent holes to the hatch, and good???

I didn't see anything about the switch panel can't be in there, but I would still mount on the other port hatch closer to you.

 

[InSaneFisherMan]

Is this the switch you are referring?

Yes, that type of switch.

Just want to mention, the switch may not be required, see the attachment.

But if you do install it, it should be as close to battery as possible.

 

[davidj65]

Thanks for all the comments, it provides some clarity.

I am leaning toward's Ray's suggestion of using the aft port side box to place the fuse box/ground bus panel, and the switch panel. It is currently filled with foam but I think that removing 100 cubic inches or something of foam is not going to make a huge deal. This boat has a ton of foam in it.

I am planning on using a master switch. I'd like to put it in the same pod as the electronics, but I wonder how far from the battery is too far. It would be about 40" from the battery to the switch if I placed it there. If that is too far, I could use the waterproof switch (like the one linked above) and mount it on the outside of the battery pod. And yes, I was planning on mounting a charger to the side of the battery pod.

Is a master breaker necessary? I've seen some people put one in between the battery and the master switch, but not always, apparently.

If I'm reading InSane's and Fuzzy's suggestions correctly, to safely put the battery in the middle pod, I would need to:

1). secure it from movement
2) vent the enclosure near the top
3) protect the battery terminals to prevent accidental contact (battery box)

Just curious, I see a lot of Jon boats and aluminum boats in general with batteries mounted in floor compartment and covered with hatches. So they ought to be vented in that installation?

Thanks for all the suggestions. Trying to do this right correctly the first time. Not in a rush, and am planning on buying good quality materials.

 

[InSaneFisherMan]

Thanks for all the comments, it provides some clarity.

I am leaning toward's Ray's suggestion of using the aft port side box to place the fuse box/ground bus panel, and the switch panel. It is currently filled with foam but I think that removing 100 cubic inches or something of foam is not going to make a huge deal. This boat has a ton of foam in it.

I am planning on using a master switch. I'd like to put it in the same pod as the electronics, but I wonder how far from the battery is too far. It would be about 40" from the battery to the switch if I placed it there. If that is too far, I could use the waterproof switch (like the one linked above) and mount it on the outside of the battery pod. And yes, I was planning on mounting a charger to the side of the battery pod.

Is a master breaker necessary? I've seen some people put one in between the battery and the master switch, but not always, apparently.

If I'm reading InSane's and Fuzzy's suggestions correctly, to safely put the battery in the middle pod, I would need to:

1). secure it from movement
2) vent the enclosure near the top
3) protect the battery terminals to prevent accidental contact (battery box)

Just curious, I see a lot of Jon boats and aluminum boats in general with batteries mounted in floor compartment and covered with hatches. So they ought to be vented in that installation?

Thanks for all the suggestions. Trying to do this right correctly the first time. Not in a rush, and am planning on buying good quality materials.

Master breaker ? Current potection should be used on wiring over 7" long. Cranking circuits are excempt. Wires that are sheethed or in conduits can be 72" long before protection is reqired. Protection should be as close to battery as possible. There are additional exceptions, but they probably don't apply.

Add 4 to battery storage. Needs to be able to contain electrolyte leak..

 

[davidj65]

Master breaker ? Current potection should be used on wiring over 7" long. Cranking circuits are excempt. Wires that are sheethed or in conduits can be 72" long before protection is reqired. Protection should be as close to battery as possible. There are additional exceptions, but they probably don't apply.

Add 4 to battery storage. Needs to be able to contain electrolyte leak..

I guess not master breaker, I'm not sure what the correct term is, but I suppose the equivalent of the main breaker in an AC panel. A breaker rated for the total capacity of the fuse box that goes between the power and the fuse box? I have seen some demo videos where they install one, and some where they don't. Doesn't seem to be any good reason not to.

 

[InSaneFisherMan]

I guess not master breaker, I'm not sure what the correct term is, but I suppose the equivalent of the main breaker in an AC panel. A breaker rated for the total capacity of the fuse box that goes between the power and the fuse box? I have seen some demo videos where they install one, and some where they don't.

Same answer, if the wire between battery/power source and fuse panel is longer than 7" a fuse or circuit breaker is required. Wiring, contacts, terminals need to be rated for the max load.

If the power wire is in a conduit or sheethed, and > 72" it requires the same as above.

Can't speak for the videos, but some people are unaware or choose not to follow best practices/standards (ABYC).

 

[davidj65]

Nice layout and I know who to watch out for now.

Given your starboard offset seat, the port side can help balance, side to side. Two in there might be too much though. You probably have some flexiblity on what side the portable tank goes on.

Lead acid batteries out gas some hydrogen something or other. Which can be explosive. Probably not a good idea to have a possible arc producing switch in the same space. You could drill vent holes, but still might be a concern. I don't know the specific "rules" for such an installation. A sealed AGM battery might be OK.

I like Ray's idea keeping them seperate and the panel closer to the operator. Maybe mount the battery charger on the front or rear face of that bin.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did not get on the river last year. I don't have a depth finder and the bottom seems to be a moving target around the island. I've been canoeing and kayaking it for years and it seems to vary. I'm probably going to try it this spring.

 

[davidj65]

Well, I considered the options and decided that the suggestion to use the middle port pod for the batteries and the aft port pod for the switches and breakers made sense. Removed the top from the corner pod and found that the foam was full of water and mostly frozen. Cut it up and removed it and decided that the other foam and deck should be examined. Lo and behold, most of the foam in the boat is pretty wet.

Pulled the deck and the bottoms of the plywood were just laying on wet foam. Some much worse than others, but all of it is wet to some degree. Mercifully, most of the marine plywood(at least that's what the label says) is fine. A lot of recent surface mold, and superficial rot around the edges that's probably been happening for a while. I'm the second owner, and I think the first owner kept in in a berth on a private lake in PA all summer, so it saw a lot of rain.

The foam installation by Alumacraft really doesn't seem so well thought out. I know nothing about this but my own common sense, but it seems that foam that absorbs water is a stupid design decision. And why they would enclose the foam in the pods in a plastic bag, no idea. Just filled with water and sat there. The foam on the floor is installed in all the framing crevices and drain points, so when water seeped between the gunwales and the edges of the floor, it had no way to drain, just seeped in-between the bottom of the floor and the foam and just sat there. Ticking time bomb

I found this by accident and if I had more experience, I probably would have known to check it as soon as I bought it last year. It is not a big deal, major pain to remove the foam but it will save the floor and I'm glad I caught it when I did. I'll replace it with as much of the blueboard wall foam insulation as I can fit, but I'll leave the drain channels open and leave a space under the floor.

As it happens, this provides the opportunity to run a conduit under the floor for a bow mounted trolling motor. What is the basic protocol to do that? I think 1" conduit is suitable for #4AWG? If the conduit can be installed in such a way as to not obstruct the drain channels, is that considered generally safe?

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

On the positive side, when all done, the boat will feel like a new one, with all the weight of the waterlogged foam gone. You were probably hauling the equivelent of another person.

 

[davidj65]

On the positive side, when all done, the boat will feel like a new one, with all the weight of the waterlogged foam gone. You were probably hauling the equivelent of another person.

Yes, that occurred to me! Probably well over 100 pounds, maybe a good bit more.

It is all good, I am glad to have found it and got a look at the condition of the floor. I'm a little concerned about the structural rigidity that the factory foam has. Blueboard has similar buoyancy but won't offer the stiffness for the hull. Is this supercritical or am I overthinking it?

Totally new and this and figuring it out as I go...

 

[FuzzyGrub]

Yes, that occurred to me! Probably well over 100 pounds, maybe a good bit more.

It is all good, I am glad to have found it and got a look at the condition of the floor. I'm a little concerned about the structural rigidity that the factory foam has. Blueboard has similar buoyancy but won't offer the stiffness for the hull. Is this supercritical or am I overthinking it?

Totally new and this and figuring it out as I go...

You have two spans so I think you will be fine with 1/2" plywood. Our old '67 Starcraft had a single span with 1/2". Whatever you do, do not make the mistake I made with my first floor restoration. No matter how dry any of the old foam may be, do NOT re-use any of it.

 

[Tin Man]

I added this custom made console on my V16......it allows for FF, bilge pump, lights, power source, etc.... basically whatever you want to add

https://www.tinboats.net/threads/my-custom-side-console-for-tiller-steered-boat.49626/#post-490040

 

[davidj65]

You have two spans so I think you will be fine with 1/2" plywood. Our old '67 Starcraft had a single span with 1/2". Whatever you do, do not make the mistake I made with my first floor restoration. No matter how dry any of the old foam may be, do NOT re-use any of it.

Thanks--it is actually 3/4" plywood and apart from superficial mold, it is solid. What was the issue with your old foam, mold?

 

[FuzzyGrub]

Thanks--it is actually 3/4" plywood and apart from superficial mold, it is solid. What was the issue with your old foam, mold?

The parts that were nice and dry, I reused. Those pieces ended up soaking up water and rotting the new plywood. The ACX plywood was only sealed wih primer and painted. Another thing I will not repeat.

3/4" ply is more than enough for those spans. It won't need the foam for support.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

It did not take much exposure to water, for it to soak in. The boat has a good center channel drain, and was always up on an angled trailer, when not in use. Always with drain plug pulled and most of the time covered. It wold get soaked with passing storms while docked. The bilge would be pumped soon after, thouh. The reused foam was mostly on the starboard side, and it started listing toward that side.