What's better Power T&T or NO T&T & a CMC unit?

[benjineer]

Thanks! That's pretty good. I was hoping for 40+ on my 16-footer. I'm going to try it without the CMC first. I'm having to build up my 15" transom to 20", but I made sure it is wide enough to fit the CMC or Panther if I decide to add one. I'll report back with before/after numbers if I do. My fuel tank is in front, and I can move a battery(s) up there if needed. I don't think stern weight will be an issue for me. Console and driving/riding seats may move forward also.

 

[onthewater102]

I'm using an aftermarket T&T with my 16' & 60HP for exactly the same reason - to preserve the breakaway option of the motor that didn't come with factory tilt & trim for running a reservoir that has a lot of floating semi-submerged debris. I haven't settled on either Bobs, CMC or the Panther unit, but those seem to be the top contenders out there.

 

[ericman]

I have an 89 Mercury 35 hp tiller, manual start, hydraulic assist. The hydraulic assist worked okay. . .if it was warm enough. Come late duck season, it was basically frozen and I couldn't raise the motor enough to lock it in the up position to maneuver it out of the weeds and prevent it from hanging up in the ice. I also had built my transom up to help prevent waves from coming over, probably 2-3 inches too high. The motor worked okay IF it was all the way down.

NOW I have a CMC after market tilt, which allowed me to set it back the 5 inches from the transom and an inch lower than my raised transom. Now the long tiller handle is easier to deal with being a little further back and now I can run the motor raised up a bit. It planes out quicker (boat is rated for 75 and now it planes out with 2 guys, coolers, guns and 120 decoys). PLUS, with the hydraulic assist disabled, it has the "kick-back".

So, I agree, for those of us running in rougher conditions. This is the way to go. One complaint though. The aftermarket lifts operate really sluggishly when it gets cold. I'm told I may need to put synthetic hydraulic fluid in the lift to make it run faster.

 

[benjineer]

PT-130 used are $200-$400 all over. Use Search Tempest and find a seller that will ship. Corpus Chrysti craigslist has one for example. Search "CMC". I bought an older rattle can black one for $160 after a 40 minute drive and a haggle. I greased the pivot points and slapped it on. Ahhh trim with setback and higher height!

Well, I got one on the way. I toyed with that garbage tilt-assist cylinder until I got the plunger the cable is supposed to pull loosened up. Now it will hold it in place for reverse and still absorb some shock, so I'm not worried about the motor flipping up into the boat with me if I hit something. I can set it down at the bottom and leave it alone. I'm excited, but I'm still at least a couple of weeks from a trial.

 

[Stumpalump]

PT-130 used are $200-$400 all over. Use Search Tempest and find a seller that will ship. Corpus Chrysti craigslist has one for example. Search "CMC". I bought an older rattle can black one for $160 after a 40 minute drive and a haggle. I greased the pivot points and slapped it on. Ahhh trim with setback and higher height!

Well, I got one on the way. I toyed with that garbage tilt-assist cylinder until I got the plunger the cable is supposed to pull loosened up. Now it will hold it in place for reverse and still absorb some shock, so I'm not worried about the motor flipping up into the boat with me if I hit something. I can set it down at the bottom and leave it alone. I'm excited, but I'm still at least a couple of weeks from a trial.

You will like it! How do you plan on getting 40 mph out of it? All I can find are 15p or 17P props. You may need a 21p and I could use a 19. Let me know if you find any. They say you can spin these motors to 6500 plus and racers go to 8000 but that's with 25:1 oil and bigger balls than I have.

 

[muddywaders]

Curious about the Mercury hydraulic tilt assist does it move when you hit something or is it like power trim?

 

[benjineer]

You will like it! How do you plan on getting 40 mph out of it? All I can find are 15p or 17P props. You may need a 21p and I could use a 19. Let me know if you find any. They say you can spin these motors to 6500 plus and racers go to 8000 but that's with 25:1 oil and bigger balls than I have.

I don't really have a point of reference right now. I just have to go try it. Will start by experimenting with engine height some I guess. The prop on it is a SS 17 pitch. I'm sure I'll need more. I didn't think about them not being available. I could always have it repitched at a prop shop. I think I have a light boat, so I'm expecting it to over-rev. I'm not running it at 6500. No way. Hey, I found some part nos for a 19P. I found a couple of them on ebay as well.



Well, Stump, I guess I shouldn't have gone looking. I found a good deal on that 011029 Michigan and bought it. I will have one of the two I have for sale when I finish my trials. I found several on ebay of different models shown in the chart above. I also found one not on the chart - 011022, but it looks to maybe be a discontinued version. Go search for some of these part numbers, you'll find something.

 

[benjineer]

Hey, a 21P exists as well. I don't see any for sale, but I'll keep this in mind if neither of the ones I have are enough.

We shall see. Maybe all I need to make it go fast is a bigger budget.

 

[Stumpalump]

Good work finding those! The speed is right on what my last two boats ran with a 17P. 37 mph on the 16' and 34 with the 18'. Make sure your tach is set right. Both of my last boats had the switch set wrong. I guess the installers memorize the OMC setting for the 3 cly and 4 cly and set the tach for them instead of the 2cly.

 

[surfman]

For shallow water running you want a jack plate, not a T&T, a T&T changes the attitude of the motor and the more you trim it up the more it forces the transom down and bow up. A jack plate raises the motor straight up, it works really well when you are really shallow and are moving slow too. You need to be careful though, of raising it up too high above the water pick up, some people add a water pressure gage and watch that, when the pressure falls of lower it back down.

 

[richg99]

re the Jackplate... Of course, you are correct. I've owned a few of them along the way.

But, a JP still leaves me back at square one. If I buy a motor with power T&T, I have no kickup provision. Added to a JP, it still doesn't have a kick-up provision, though one would hope that by jacking the motor higher, it wouldn't hit too many obstacles.

If I buy a motor WITHOUT T&T...I gain the kickup. If I put it on a JP..I have the ability to raise the engine, but I lose T&T.

It's a dilemma that I haven't figured out yet.

My past experiences say to do what you suggest. Just buy a JP, and buy a motor with power T&T..and pray.

richg99

p.s. This discussion may well be moot if I buy a used boat. It will have what it has, and then I can figure out what, if anything, I want to change.

 

[onthewater102]

With braying being a central part of the plan it doesn't sound like a very good plan.

 

[benjineer]

Good work finding those! The speed is right on what my last two boats ran with a 17P. 37 mph on the 16' and 34 with the 18'. Make sure your tach is set right. Both of my last boats had the switch set wrong. I guess the installers memorize the OMC setting for the 3 cly and 4 cly and set the tach for them instead of the 2cly.

Good point. I'll be robbing the tach off a boat that was running a V4. If the 19P is not enough I may go searching for a 21, but not until I finish my other mods, since I may be increasing the weight. I want top end, but I won't sacrifice power with whatever my heaviest load is. I hate a boat that bogs and planes slowly.

 

[surfman]

So if you have a jack plate, why do you need power trim and tilt? Just jack it up if it is too low trailering or something like that, if you need to tilt it up then I understand. For years I had and old Evinrude V4 140 hp and it did not have trim and tilt. I almost never tilted the motor up but when I did it wasn't all that hard to do but you did have to lean on it.

 

[benjineer]

Power trim allows you to make adjustments while you are running for different loads or sea conditions. The boat will plane quicker with the trim down but once on plane it runs faster and more efficiently with it trimmed up. That sweet spot could be a different position today than yesterday depending on weight in the boat and where the weight is and the speed you are trying to run. Small light boat on small lakes or rivers with slick water, and a permanent trim may be ok. Slick water you want bow up for speed until it just starts to porpoise then back off. Rough water you want bow down and run slow to use the V if you have one to cut the waves.

 

[richg99]

Thanks guys. Problem may be solved this afternoon.

If suçcessful, I'll own a motor with T.&T. and it's boat with a manual JP. No changes anticipated at this time.

richg99

 

[Stumpalump]

Thanks guys. Problem may be solved this afternoon.

If suçcessful, I'll own a motor with T.&T. and it's boat with a manual JP. No changes anticipated at this time.

richg99

I found selling stuff that if I can get them to show up then they buy. Soooo....I'd like to be the first to congratulate you on the new addition to the family!

 

[turbotodd]

Bob's for sure. I like both, but Bob's has always been a premium product. The panther isn't too bad but the actuator isn't hydraulic, it's electric. Not a big deal really, simpler for sure, but makes me wonder how well it's sealed up? Most in this area use CMC, few Panther's and a very few Bob's, probably because of price point and "the name".

PT&T vs add-on. A CMC (or any other add-on) with factory PT&T gives you some more adjustability that you wouldn't normally have, which can be nice. For instance, if you tuck the "CMC" in all the way, and trim the motor out, it's just normal PT&T. But if you trim the motor's PT&T in all the way, and then the CMC "out", the motor actually gets a lift, sorta like a jack plate, all done by the difference in geometries of the two PT&T's. Kinda slick. But redundant, and for most it's not a cost-conscious option. A few duck hunters, aka boat racers, in this area run that setup, and it must work. There's also the option of the tilt and jack all in one unit, if your pockets are deep enough. I sure would like one but can't justify the cost.

Another option. Use a BA130 CMC unit (break-a-way) with a factory PT&T motor. Seen a lot of those out here too, quite popular in the flooded timber actually. Just make sure to put a chain or cable on the break-a-way so that the motor doesn't join you in the boat should you hit something. They come with a spring loaded deal that's basically a joke if you hit anything hard enough.

 

[richg99]

Problem resolved....( I hope).

I bought a 2006 1756 Lowe Semi V this afternoon. 2009 50 hp 2 cycle Mercury (probably made by Tahatsu) with T&T. The former owner was an aircraft mechanic and he "built" this thing from the bare hull. You can see the detail and attention that he paid to the boat.

We'll see how shallow it goes. My mechanic of 25 years believes that this setup will do what I want. The owner already has a manual JP on the boat. I'll add a Hydraulic JP if needed. I bought the boat at a good enough price that I have plenty of room to "improve" an already well-done craft.

richg99

 

[surfman]

Power trim allows you to make adjustments while you are running for different loads or sea conditions. The boat will plane quicker with the trim down but once on plane it runs faster and more efficiently with it trimmed up. That sweet spot could be a different position today than yesterday depending on weight in the boat and where the weight is and the speed you are trying to run. Small light boat on small lakes or rivers with slick water, and a permanent trim may be ok. Slick water you want bow up for speed until it just starts to porpoise then back off. Rough water you want bow down and run slow to use the V if you have one to cut the waves.

Yea, I've owned many boats of all sizes and PT&T is a must on a larger boat and so are trim tabs for that matter, but on a small boat like a jon, it is not necessary, set it at the best for over all performance and if you need to trim it a little to get the bow down, slide the cooler forward a foot or step to the left a little.