Wood Glue or Epoxy? Laminating Transom Plywood

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Didn't read the whole thread but to add my time doing this, When I was a kid I bought a 15 that I wanted to mount on the back of a 12' sears boat, the engine was slightly heavier then the boat itself when empty. With my dads help we beefed up the back using Elmer's wood glue and a bunch of galvanized through bolts. After a few years a noticed a little rust on the wood from the bolts corroding as it was used exclusively in the salt. But nothing you couldn't fix with a few new bolts here and there. We painted the crap out of the wood, must have used several coats of regular house paint and it never wore off.

So IMO you can't go wrong using either method.
 
With the amount of engine you want to use I wouldn't give a warm bucket of spit for plywood. On a real boat, get some oak and laminate it up with West System epoxy. You are wasting time, energy, and materials with what you are doing.
 
I have epoxy and glass cloth on order. Some Raka 900 and 2oz cloth. Will be looking for suitable plywood this week and also look into the solid white oak as well.
Thanks everyone!
 
I have been an active memember of "Wooden Boat" for over 35 years
iboats the past 6 or 7 years and FiberGlassics the past couple of years.
one of the most debated topics on most boat forums is the transom boards.
it is like arguing my Ford can beat up your Chevy but I will take a Dodge all day long.
there are several pros and cons with any building material.
Whether it be for a boat, house, or the Bridge over the River Kwai.
it is up to the builder to do his own research and determine what material
and procedure will suit his/her project the best. (and safest).
O/P: just to ensure you have the accurate information for your project,
put "white oak boat transom" and " best wood for boat transom" in your search engine
and do some looking around.
whatever you choose is: your boat = your call.

when I went from 35hp to 50hp on my 16' bass boat, I removed all wood and fabricated
the transom board out of aluminum 1-1/4" square tubing and 1/4" aluminum plate laminated
together. I do not suggest this method over wood because it requires a bit of metal working
and is way overkill for 99% of the boats here on TinBoats where wood is the accepted norm.
but - it was my option. I had the materials on hand and the skill to do it.
There is quite a bit of additional bracing on the inside that I do not have photos of.
Alum Transom 1.JPG
Bass Boat 016.JPG

our fellow member here, DaleH chose another option. He used the poured-in-place SeaCast
liquid fiberglass reinforced product for a solid transom and it turned out quite well.
It depends on your skill level and how much time and money you want to put in it.




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Johnny said:
I have been an active memember of "Wooden Boat" for over 35 years
iboats the past 6 or 7 years and FiberGlassics the past couple of years.
one of the most debated topics on most boat forums is the transom boards.
it is like arguing my Ford can beat up your Chevy but I will take a Dodge all day long.
there are several pros and cons with any building material.
Whether it be for a boat, house, or the Bridge over the River Kwai.
it is up to the builder to do his own research and determine what material
and procedure will suit his/her project the best. (and safest).
O/P: just to ensure you have the accurate information for your project,
put "white oak boat transom" and " best wood for boat transom" in your search engine
and do some looking around.
whatever you choose is: your boat = your call.

when I went from 35hp to 50hp on my 16' bass boat, I removed all wood and fabricated
the transom board out of aluminum 1-1/4" square tubing and 1/4" aluminum plate laminated
together. I do not recommend this over wood because it requires a bit of metal working
and is way overkill for 99% of the boats here on TinBoats where wood is the accepted norm.
but - it was my option. I had the materials on hand and the skill to do it.
There is quite a bit of additional bracing on the inside that I do not have photos of.
View attachment 1


our fellow member here, DaleH chose another option. He used the poured-in-place SeaCast
liquid fiberglass reinforced product for a solid transom and it turned out quite well.
It depends on how much time and money you want to put in it.




.
That sure looks like one durable transom Johnny. You got me thinking now...

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
 
Texas Prowler said:
Johnny said:
I have been an active memember of "Wooden Boat" for over 35 years
iboats the past 6 or 7 years and FiberGlassics the past couple of years.
one of the most debated topics on most boat forums is the transom boards.
it is like arguing my Ford can beat up your Chevy but I will take a Dodge all day long.
there are several pros and cons with any building material.
Whether it be for a boat, house, or the Bridge over the River Kwai.
it is up to the builder to do his own research and determine what material
and procedure will suit his/her project the best. (and safest).
O/P: just to ensure you have the accurate information for your project,
put "white oak boat transom" and " best wood for boat transom" in your search engine
and do some looking around.
whatever you choose is: your boat = your call.

when I went from 35hp to 50hp on my 16' bass boat, I removed all wood and fabricated
the transom board out of aluminum 1-1/4" square tubing and 1/4" aluminum plate laminated
together. I do not recommend this over wood because it requires a bit of metal working
and is way overkill for 99% of the boats here on TinBoats where wood is the accepted norm.
but - it was my option. I had the materials on hand and the skill to do it.
There is quite a bit of additional bracing on the inside that I do not have photos of.
View attachment 1


our fellow member here, DaleH chose another option. He used the poured-in-place SeaCast
liquid fiberglass reinforced product for a solid transom and it turned out quite well.
It depends on how much time and money you want to put in it.




.
That sure looks like one durable transom Johnny. You got me thinking now...

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

Me too! That is pretty cool. Serious engineering!

I found some discussion on white oak. Pretty interesting.

https://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?183280-Built-up-white-oak-transom-question

I also found some great discussion on the Seacast and other pour-able structural products. One of the pour-ables is Arjay CPC and here is the link.

https://www.arjaytech.com/index.php/our-products/ceramic-pourable


Thanks again everyone! The responses are fabulous and very much appreciated!
 
at the risk of thread drift, I will ad one last note.
I started on the overhaul of my '59 Crestliner this weekend
so hopefully I can stay focused on that for awhile.
if you prefer to address any of your issues or concerns with me directly, please feel free to PM me.

modifications to ANY boat is only limited to your imagination, skill level,
source for the CORRECT materials, make a plan of attack and a plan of escape
when something goes wrong. willing to make adjustments as you go along.
have a "plan B" in your mind for what to do when something goes wrong.
form over function over necessity.





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After much investigation I found some plywood for both my transom and decking. It is called Araucoply and Lowes had it for $21.65 per 4'x8' 1/2" sheet. AC grade, 5 plys almost zero voids, exterior glue. Made from Radiata pine from Chile.

IMG_20170210_123640640 by mrdaveusa, on Flickr

IMG_20170210_123705870 by mrdaveusa, on Flickr

IMG_20170210_123753433 by mrdaveusa, on Flickr

Got my epoxy kit and 2oz glass cloth delivered as well.

IMG_20170209_200552413 by mrdaveusa, on Flickr


Now it only the weather would co-operate! The forecast is not good. Will update this thread when progress is made.
 
I would store that ply flat. I think it warps more when leaned against a wall.

I too laminated ply for a transom rebuild of a fiberglass boat (this was 15 years ago).

I put the resin/glass/resin on & then screwed the 2 pcs together with stainless screws to tighten it up.

Another tip is that you can easily make your own CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer- look it up) by mixing 25% Xylol solvent with your epoxy resin. That soaks in big time into the edges of the ply.
 
CedarRiverScooter said:
I would store that ply flat. I think it warps more when leaned against a wall.

I too laminated ply for a transom rebuild of a fiberglass boat (this was 15 years ago).

I put the resin/glass/resin on & then screwed the 2 pcs together with stainless screws to tighten it up.

Another tip is that you can easily make your own CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer- look it up) by mixing 25% Xylol solvent with your epoxy resin. That soaks in big time into the edges of the ply.

I wish I could store it flat but I have no room in the garage. But that makes good sense to me. Need a bigger garage!
I am going to have to have all my ducks lined up in a row before getting started as I will laminate three of these together and the pot life of the epoxy I have is less than 12 minutes. Should be interesting.
I had planned to laminate the three pieces together only with the epoxy and glass. Then seal them with the old timers formula talked about here on this site and paint. The transom is a tight fit into place at exactly 1.5" thick so I don't think I have room to build up a fiberglass skin. Thanks for the CPES tip, I will look into that.
 
Dave - I just fabricated a transom panel yesterday
using the method that I mentioned here with the fiberglass.

I used the Raka 900 medium viscosity epoxy and it took
almost a whole quart of resin to do the 14"x53" transom.
so if you are going to laminate 3 pieces of 1/2", it will take
that much more (give or take). so plan accordingly.
The plywood I used was just under 3/4" and the glass came out
to about 1/8" thick. so measure your wood thickness carefully
and take into account the additional two layers of 1/8" glass.
if you can, do a 6"x12" or 12x12" practice piece first using the same materials
that you plan to use on your transom panel. Then do the math
to see how much material it will take for your project.
suggestion: don't laminate all 3 pieces at once. laminate two panels,
weight it down and let it cure over night. next day, laminate the 3rd panel.
you can not do 3 panels with glass in 12-15 minutes.
good luck !
the transom panel that I just made is about 1-1/4" thick and
I will be laminating some 1/4" thick Florida Cypress lumber to that
and it will come out to about 1.5"
end cut 001.JPG
 
I think you can get a slower hardener. I don't think I could lay down that much glass & get it clamped tight in 12 minutes.

If you are stuck using what you bought, another trick is to keep the mixed epoxy cold until after it is applied. You can have your mixing cup sitting in some ice water, for example. Will buy you some time.
 
Johnny said:
Dave - I just fabricated a transom panel yesterday
using the method that I mentioned here with the fiberglass.

I used the Raka 900 medium viscosity epoxy and it took
almost a whole quart of resin to do the 14"x53" transom.
so if you are going to laminate 3 pieces of 1/2", it will take
that much more (give or take). so plan accordingly.
The plywood I used was just under 3/4" and the glass came out
to about 1/8" thick. so measure your wood thickness carefully
and take into account the additional two layers of 1/8" glass.
if you can, do a 6"x12" or 12x12" practice piece first using the same materials
that you plan to use on your transom panel. Then do the math
to see how much material it will take for your project.
suggestion: don't laminate all 3 pieces at once. laminate two panels,
weight it down and let it cure over night. next day, laminate the 3rd panel.
you can not do 3 panels with glass in 12-15 minutes.
good luck !
the transom panel that I just made is about 1-1/4" thick and
I will be laminating some 1/4" thick Florida Cypress lumber to that
and it will come out to about 1.5"

Johnny how did you get the nice perfect 1/8 thick glass layer like that? Is that all filled with cloth that thick? Why did the epoxy not all squeeze out when you clamped it?
 
Dave - I helped my father do some glass work back in '60s.
after I joined the Navy, I was stationed in Key West, FL for 6 years
and worked part time at a boat yard - where I learned sooooooo much
about wood and fiberglass work on boats.
So I have layed many, many yards of glass cloth and mat. During my younger years,
I have had several wood and fiberglass boats that I did a lot of work on.

to answer your question:
the glass seam that you see in the photo is one layer of 2oz biaxial chopped strand mat.
twice as thick as cloth. and the mat holds twice as much resin.
once both sides of the wood panels are coated with copius amounts of resin, place the
mat in place and saturate it - removing all white spots, which is actually air trapped in the glass.
all air must be removed prior to laminating.
the clamps are only used to squeeze the wood down tight while you put in the screws.
the screws will hold it all together while you move it around.
Remove all the screws once you have all the weight in place.
if you leave the screws in place, they will prevent even compression of the panels.
which "could" result in less than favorable results.
I applied about 400 pounds of weight on the panel over night and it turned out quite nice.
Transom Build 6.JPG
the heavy weight will squeeze out the "excess" resin and leave that nice even glass seam in the middle
which is VERY strong and rigid.
end cut 003.JPG
SAFETY WARNING: once the resin has cured, the protruding glass edges are extemely SHARP.
handle with caution. leather gloves strongly suggested while trimming the wood to shape.
cured epoxy.JPG
do not let children play with any of the cut-off edges.
if you do not use enough newspaper around the edges while the weight is applied, you will literally
glue your panel to the floor and can only be removed with crowbars - destroying the panel in the process.
I use a medium hardner in epoxy and polyester resin because I know their working limits.
ambient temperature plays a big part in the setting time: hot weather=faster set up.
cold weather=slower set up. I do not suggest putting the epoxy in a cold ice bath. Once you spread it
out on the wood panels, it quickly reaches the ambient temperature and will cure accordingly.

sorry to make this into a science project - but that is the nature of the product.

for the novice, I would recommend the slow hardner to give you more time to get it all together.
if you don't dilly dally around, you can do your project easily in 15 minutes for two panels. not 3.
apply the 3rd panel the next day and you will be golden.
If you measure the 3 layers of your 1/2" plywood and 1/8" glass core and it is way
less than 1.5", you can add a layer of 1/4" plywood with the same specs as your 1/2".
oh - precut the fiberglass to fit the panel before you start. Then you won't be fumbling
around trying to lay resin and cut glass at the same time.
(the panel I just made is 14"x53" and it weighs 24 pounds).
I just looked at the sticker on your plywood and it is only 15/32" thick.
Arauco Ply.jpg
depending on the total thickness you want your transom panel to be,
you may have to make some adjustments somewhere along the way.

does that help ??


again - this is just my way of doing things...... other folks have their methods, I have mine.






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