Powering your home during power outages

Just addressing the no flame when cooking with NG due to the NG generator sucking up too much. You have to plan out your line into the house accordingly. Same when it comes to those newer instant hot water heaters. They need a lot of gas to develop those 200,000 BTU. You need a 2 or 2.5" line to handle the draw.

Crazyboat said:

Just addressing the no flame when cooking with NG due to the NG generator sucking up too much. You have to plan out your line into the house accordingly. Same when it comes to those newer instant hot water heaters. They need a lot of gas to develop those 200,000 BTU. You need a 2 or 2.5" line to handle the draw.

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That makes sense. I just spoke to my neighbor who is looking into the propane standby and and he said bulk price is just over $2.00. Not sure how much over though.

In my area, propane is fairly cheap compared to other fuels, we have a number of refineries in our area which helps lower the propane cost. Here in the cold winter the NG folks have to inject propane into the NG lines to keep pressure up, otherwise the NGwill stop flowing with enough pressure to work. When we were getting quotes for generators, whatever size genny I needed to run my household was quoted to burn 25 gallons per day to keep my home operational. When others have no power at all, or are running around filling gas cans, the less than two bucks a gallon for propane sounds like a bargain.

Crazyboat said:

Just addressing the no flame when cooking with NG due to the NG generator sucking up too much. You have to plan out your line into the house accordingly. Same when it comes to those newer instant hot water heaters. They need a lot of gas to develop those 200,000 BTU. You need a 2 or 2.5" line to handle the draw.

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My propane line that feeds my home, with heat, hot water and gas dryer is 1/8" diameter.....gas company claims I could run two homes off that same 1/8" line !
My propane water heater recovers far faster than my NG water heater ever did..
Our clothes dryer is far quicker than our NG dryer ever was....propane has been far superior fuel.

airshot said:

In my area, propane is fairly cheap compared to other fuels, we have a number of refineries in our area which helps lower the propane cost. Here in the cold winter the NG folks have to inject propane into the NG lines to keep pressure up, otherwise the NGwill stop flowing with enough pressure to work. When we were getting quotes for generators, whatever size genny I needed to run my household was quoted to burn 25 gallons per day to keep my home operational. When others have no power at all, or are running around filling gas cans, the less than two bucks a gallon for propane sounds like a bargain.

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Been there for sure searching for gas I was running a 2800 Yamaha inverter and burning 5-6 gallons a day for Ida. I could have drained the boats but didn’t want to unless I had to. Another plus for diesel over gas is there were no shortages and no lines at the diesel only pumps

airshot said:

My propane line that feeds my home, with heat, hot water and gas dryer is 1/8" diameter.....gas company claims I could run two homes off that same 1/8" line !
My propane water heater recovers far faster than my NG water heater ever did..
Our clothes dryer is far quicker than our NG dryer ever was....propane has been far superior fuel.

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I don't know how much colder it gets in Ohio then NJ, but we get zero often enough, with 10-20F being common in winter. In all my 60+ years we've never had a problem with NG service. Maybe it's because nearly every house and business in NJ uses it, IDK.

When we lost our summer home at the shore to Sandy we rebuilt and I brought the NG load to the gas company, they told me a 2"-2.5" line into the house was what we needed. The 2" line was enough but on the chance that I'd want to add a NG fireplace in the future they said go with the 2.5" line.
We had a Hot forced air NG heat (1,250 sq ft house), 2 bath tankless hot water and stove/oven.

Crazyboat said:

Just addressing the no flame when cooking with NG due to the NG generator sucking up too much. You have to plan out your line into the house accordingly. Same when it comes to those newer instant hot water heaters. They need a lot of gas to develop those 200,000 BTU. You need a 2 or 2.5" line to handle the draw.

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When I installed a second water heater, I was told I might need to swap out the NG meter to one that flows more if I had issues.
We had no issues.

Crazyboat said:

I don't know how much colder it gets in Ohio then NJ, but we get zero often enough, with 10-20F being common in winter. In all my 60+ years we've never had a problem with NG service. Maybe it's because nearly every house and business in NJ uses it, IDK.

When we lost our summer home at the shore to Sandy we rebuilt and I brought the NG load to the gas company, they told me a 2"-2.5" line into the house was what we needed. The 2" line was enough but on the chance that I'd want to add a NG fireplace in the future they said go with the 2.5" line.
We had a Hot forced air NG heat (1,250 sq ft house), 2 bath tankless hot water and stove/oven.

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You won't have a problem as long as the NG service company pushes the pressure up by adding propane when the temps drop below O degrees. Our area gas supplier sends out notices each year explaining how this works at the beginning of each heating season. We had NG for years with no problems either, but when we moved out to the country there was no NG. We chose propane with no regrets, much hotter burning, water heater recovers in minutes and clothes dryer is much faster than the NG version. Our overall yearly cost is less for propane than it was for NG. To each his own, but we really like our propane fuel.

You have some strange NG up there. Very low pressure, apparently. In the DC area, its high pressure, then regulated down at the meter.

thill said:

You have some strange NG up there. Very low pressure, apparently. In the DC area, its high pressure, then regulated down at the meter.

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As it is supposed to be, but in extreme cold, NG looses pressure according to the local gas company. However, I am sure there are areas were the pressure is better or worse than others.

The NG here is pushed through large main lines beneath the street with a 3/8" line going to each house. At the house, it's expanded and regulated, to a 1" pipe, and then broken down to 1/2" or 3/4" black pipe that runs through the house. Newer houses use corrugated yellow pipe, which I'm not fond of because it is easily damaged.

Anyway, we once clipped the underground feed to a house with a backhoe, and that thing whistled! We crimped it off and called the gas company. At first, they were annoyed that we tried to stop the flow, then they were glad because they would have had to evacuate the neighborhood if we hadn't.

I don't know the psi of the gas coming from the street, but it was pretty high. Hard to imagine that would be reduced much in the cold, especially since it's 6' underground, where the temps are stable, around 50 degrees. I DO know that sometimes a meter will go bad. But different areas probably use different systems, as you said.

Going back to propane, it sounds like having a 1,000 gallon tank would cover you for a good, long time. At 50 gallons, that costs you about $100/day, and everything works as usual. That's not so bad, as long as it's not out for a month.

It seems like ANY system is going to cost you, besides solar. My little 300W portable solar panels top off my lithium batteries FAST on a sunny day. But in the winter, that may not work so well, with the shorter days.

I just saw a 10kW generator you connect to your tractor's 3 point hitch and just let her idle. That's an interesting concept, too. My tractor runs forever on a gallon of fuel.

thill said:

Going back to propane, it sounds like having a 1,000 gallon tank would cover you for a good, long time. At 50 gallons, that costs you about $100/day, and everything works as usual. That's not so bad, as long as it's not out for a month.

It seems like ANY system is going to cost you, besides solar. My little 300W portable solar panels top off my lithium batteries FAST on a sunny day. But in the winter, that may not work so well, with the shorter days.

I just saw a 10kW generator you connect to your tractor's 3 point hitch and just let her idle. That's an interesting concept, too. My tractor runs forever on a gallon of fuel.

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I was quoted about one gallon per hour or 25 gallons a day to keep a propane genny running to maintain our household in an emergency. At around 1.69 per gallon that is less than 50 bucks per day, not cheap, but better than not having any power ! Very few comforts are gonna be cheap, but also depends on where you live...

thill said:

Going back to propane, it sounds like having a 1,000 gallon tank would cover you for a good, long time. At 50 gallons, that costs you about $100/day, and everything works as usual. That's not so bad, as long as it's not out for a month.

It seems like ANY system is going to cost you, besides solar. My little 300W portable solar panels top off my lithium batteries FAST on a sunny day. But in the winter, that may not work so well, with the shorter days.

I just saw a 10kW generator you connect to your tractor's 3 point hitch and just let her idle. That's an interesting concept, too. My tractor runs forever on a gallon of fuel.

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Most of those need 540 rpm at the pto which means more rpm on the engine. Depending on the tractor could be 2000 rpm or more. Not bad but not exactly idle. I would be interested to see how well the governor reacts to full loads and affects hertz

airshot said:

You won't have a problem as long as the NG service company pushes the pressure up by adding propane when the temps drop below O degrees. Our area gas supplier sends out notices each year explaining how this works at the beginning of each heating season. We had NG for years with no problems either, but when we moved out to the country there was no NG. We chose propane with no regrets, much hotter burning, water heater recovers in minutes and clothes dryer is much faster than the NG version. Our overall yearly cost is less for propane than it was for NG. To each his own, but we really like our propane fuel.

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Propane by us

airshot said:

You won't have a problem as long as the NG service company pushes the pressure up by adding propane when the temps drop below O degrees. Our area gas supplier sends out notices each year explaining how this works at the beginning of each heating season. We had NG for years with no problems either, but when we moved out to the country there was no NG. We chose propane with no regrets, much hotter burning, water heater recovers in minutes and clothes dryer is much faster than the NG version. Our overall yearly cost is less for propane than it was for NG. To each his own, but we really like our propane fuel.

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Propane here is about $3.20 a gal. NG is less expensive and the option of choice where we are. If NG was not an option, I'd be all over propane.

tcassavaugh said:

i live on the Chesapeake bay in southern Maryland. we get storms, we get tornados, we get hurricanes. our power company did some extensive trimming a couple of years back and our power interruptions became fewer. I've always had a gas powered generator to run things during an emergency. last year we were without power for 5 days and the generator wouldn't start. we decided to get a whole house generator that runs on propane. now, it turns on automatically when power is lost and runs until its restored. best investment we ever made.

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Same here, southern Maryland, on the bay (not quite to Point Lookout). 22 Kw whole house generator, comes on once/week just to charge up the battery and ensure everything is running correctly. 500 gallon propane tank. I've had the rocker arms adjusted and either I do it or have annual oil change. Had control board go out one year, only $400.00 !!!! I think based on where you live dictates the urgency of, if you even have a generator, what size, etc.

Crazyboat said:

Propane by us

Propane here is about $3.20 a gal. NG is less expensive and the option of choice where we are. If NG was not an option, I'd be all over propane.

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At that price, so would I !!! Highest I ever paid in our 25 years here was 2.20 a gallon.....typical is under 2 bucks a gallon.

moedelawn said:

Most of those need 540 rpm at the pto which means more rpm on the engine. Depending on the tractor could be 2000 rpm or more. Not bad but not exactly idle. I would be interested to see how well the governor reacts to full loads and affects hertz

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I have a 3-speed PTO- L-540 RPM, H- 860 RPM and belly- 2650 RPM I never use high for regular implements, but that might be perfect for a generator set.

My only question is will it produce "clean" or "dirty" power? Dirty power can damage electronics and hurt certain things like refrigerator compressors. I need to look into that. Right now, diesel is $2.89/gallon, but one gallon will run my tractor for hours. Diesel may be a cost-efficient source, but I don't have real-world figures to know for sure.

airshot said:

I was quoted about one gallon per hour or 25 gallons a day to keep a propane genny running to maintain our household in an emergency. At around 1.69 per gallon that is less than 50 bucks per day, not cheap, but better than not having any power ! Very few comforts are gonna be cheap, but also depends on where you live...

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$50/day isn't bad for a whole-house system. Better than $100!

Something I've learned is to unplug EVERYTHING that isn't necessary. Many things have a "parasite load" even when off. TVs, printers, computers, toasters, coffee makers and the list goes on and on. Plug it in when you need to use it.

When I first start my generator, it will not go into eco-mode until I do my thing of unplugging unused stuff. Once I do, it will idle way down and sip fuel, Lights, TV and computer won't kick it up, only when something big, like the well pump, water heater or stove comes on. Being careful is a big factor in only using 5 gal/day, besides having an efficient generator to start with.

Of course, if the power is only going to be out for a few hours, I don't worry about it. But we have had several times where it was out for a week or more, then it matters a lot.

It's not so much about cost, but during a disaster, getting more fuel can be a problem, so the less you use, the longer you can keep things going.

FYI - Amazon day is here. I just bought a pair of 100AH LiFeP0 batteries for $140 each.
That gives us 600 amp-hours of silent reserve power. I have a 300W solar panel, but am thinking of getting another one for $219.

Along with the high-efficiency 4,000W inverter, they will run our essentials, at least for awhile. That will supplement the generator nicely for long term issues.