Censorship

Alright, I've heard your calls and am setting up a political forum now. I will let you all know once its setup.

Canoe said:

Guys, no politics has ALWAYS been the rules. I am enforcing them the way they have always been enforced.

No politics. It's divisive. It was decided well before I got here it wouldn't be allowed.

I'm sorry if people find this upsetting, but the original owner/team made this decision from day one to my understanding and I'm honoring it.

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What I don’t understand is why the American Flag is considered “political”? It doesn’t support any political party, if you are American, it is your flag. Be proud of it.

Shark52 said:

What I don’t understand is why the American Flag is considered “political”? It doesn’t support any political party, if you are American, it is your flag. Be proud of it.

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I'm blanket enfocring a policy. There was more nuance to what was posted than just a flag, but I should have been clearer in why an action took place.

I think people tend to forget there's an actual human being sitting behind the computer screen doing the best they can to do what has always been done. This was the former owner's signature and what I've been enforcing.



I have received a lot of support for locking the thread and I'm grateful for that but we will be releasing a political section (you should see it in the forum index now) and if you'd like access pm me.

lightflyer1 said:

Wow! I guess I missed something.

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Me too, but maybe it's time to unite and vote with our collective feet. I will weigh the facts as I have just logged in for the first time since the election. I now see the post from the owner stating the creation of a political section. Interesting.

OK, I got to read the entire thread. I was a moderator of a forum for a few years. It's a harder job then one might think. Trying to balance the rules with intent and the will of the posters themselves. That said, It appears the Forum will now have a political option. It will be the responsibility of all involved to keep it civil. If you can't I'm sure it will be dissolved.

I just logged on to review the latest boat topics and found this thread. I am a paid subscriber and have been a long time participant on this website. In my personal experience, there are a great bunch of boaters/fisherman with great attitudes and knowledge about boats, boating, and fishing on this website. I appreciate the camaraderie and mutual interests of aluminum boats.

I am really sorry to see several members choosing to leave the site due to a recent thread locking that was deemed by some members as "censorship."

Over the years I have really enjoyed participating in many of the boat topics, repairs, mods, fishing, etc. from some very knowledgable members. This is one of the better forums/sites, specific to alum boats, that I have found. While it will be a forum loss for members to leave, I understand everyone has the right to do as he/she choses.

While I personally do not believe censorship occurred (as the post still exists and was not removed), as the thread was simply locked to any future replies. I believe the owner of this website does have the right to lock and remove content at their sole discretion. I am fine with that, as this is common on most websites that are not politically themed.

For me, the rules below are clear and relate directly to what was done to the thread in question. However, it is important to understand that NO content was removed (that I am aware of). And if content were removed/edited, the below rules below, are again, applicable.

My personal speculation.... the owners believed that perhaps, given the current political state of our country and the recent election, the thread could spiral out hand and lead to something negative ...again their speculation is their right as owners of the site and listed under their rules. A moderator has stated that a political forum will be created. However, I believe the same rules would still apply, so I am not sure how that solves anything for those that have been offended.

Lastly, to financially support or not, leave this site, continue to participate, etc, lies with each individual participant/member. As much as I would be very much disappointed to see members leave, I respect individual freedom and choices. My hopes are that you will stay.


4.2. We reserve the right to refuse service, deny or terminate membership and access to any person with or without cause, and to remove or edit content in our sole and absolute discretion.

6.3. Aluminum Boat & Jon/V Boat Discussion Forum assumes no responsibility to monitor the Websites but we may do so at our sole discretion. Member-posted content may be removed from the Websites at any time with or without cause and without prior notice.

Wouldn’t it have been better just to say enjoy the picture but this thread is not open for discussion?

Canoe said:

I'm blanket enfocring a policy. There was more nuance to what was posted than just a flag, but I should have been clearer in why an action took place.

I think people tend to forget there's an actual human being sitting behind the computer screen doing the best they can to do what has always been done. This was the former owner's signature and what I've been enforcing.

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I have received a lot of support for locking the thread and I'm grateful for that but we will be releasing a political section (you should see it in the forum index now) and if you'd like access pm me.

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I think the biggest frustration was that it was an unwritten rule. Those of us that weren't around in the old days didn't know that anything remotely political was taboo. I wouldn't personally post anything political here because I've seen what it does to a forum. However, it would have been nice to know it was officially against the rules before somebody turned it into an issue like this.

BillC said:

Wouldn’t it have been better just to say enjoy the picture but this thread is not open for discussion?

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It's a hard call. You're coming at it with a clear head. The admin had just been over this "political" topic the last few days and most likely had his guard up. Being on heightened alert might make one overreact. Some would say, isn't it better to just message the admin privately and not call his actions out in public. It's a fine line to walk, ya can't please everyone, so, ya got to please yourself.

Crazyboat said:

It's a hard call. You're coming at it with a clear head. The admin had just been over this "political" topic the last few days and most likely had his guard up. Being on heightened alert might make one overreact. Some would say, isn't it better to just message the admin privately and not call his actions out in public. It's a fine line to walk, ya can't please everyone, so, ya got to please yourself.

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And that's the flip side to this. I don't really understand why Still Afloat chose to post publicly, instead of trying to handle it privately, either. This thread stands as a case study for what politics can do to a forum. The situation was handled less than optimally, to varying degrees, by both sides and it resulted in a dumpster fire. A fire that could have easily been avoided if one or both parties had simply reached out to the other to have a good faith discussion about the issue in private.

Personally I have been in combat zone, as others, defending what America stands for and has asked me to do!

Never, ever belived I would be trying to defend Patriots posting pictures of US flags in the United States, in a fishing group.

No specific rules ban this activity, by these individuals.

Its obvious that most weren't aware of the rules, some couldn't find them, and some blamed those individuals for not following rules that don`t exist.

Now, anyone that thinks those pictures are political has never been to Afghanistan and had to stop all movement for the dignified transfer of heros.

Ban political speech, but you will never ban Patriots.

My last comment on this subject.

You all just keep doubleing down, and refuse to see what happened. If those pics had been posted July 3rd, 4th, & 5th, they would have been patriotic, and Canoe might not have done a thing about them. However, they weren't.....they were posted November 6th, the day following a presidential election.........a rather contentious presidential election. The timing made them a political statement, and it should be obvious to all of you, agreeing with the action(s) or not.
I'll concede that Canoe should have posted an explanation, but I find that I have to agree with his evaluation.

Roger.....not blinded by his personal views.

Could have easily stated that " due to having this turn into a political case, we will not allow anymore posts to this posting" To just openly call those pics a political statement is not right. I do respect the owners right to decide whatever they wish and I with thus site the best, however I cannot support financially any site that doesn't approve of pics of our nations flag or eagle symbol.

GTS225 said:

You all just keep doubleing down, and refuse to see what happened. If those pics had been posted July 3rd, 4th, & 5th, they would have been patriotic, and Canoe might not have done a thing about them. However, they weren't.....they were posted November 6th, the day following a presidential election.........a rather contentious presidential election. The timing made them a political statement, and it should be obvious to all of you, agreeing with the action(s) or not.
I'll concede that Canoe should have posted an explanation, but I find that I have to agree with his evaluation.

Roger.....not blinded by his personal views.

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I agree. The post that spawned this thread was political in nature.

I have avoided jumping into this discussion, or any of the other threads claiming censorship. This is the only time I will "contribute" for this thread. I do engage in political discussions on another non-boat-related forum. I will keep my political discussions on that forum.

I understood from the outset that there was no political discussion on this forum. Don't recall exactly why I thought that, but I surely didn't make it up. When I enter a privately-owned/operated forum, I treat it the same as if I had just entered somebody's home. They get to set the rules, and if I don't like it, I'm free to leave. That's freedom of association, and it's another right enshrined in our Constitution.

The forum operator has now created a page for controversial issues. If you want to avail yourself of that page, please do.

I have been contributing to various forums now for 25 years. I've seen tiny political comments rapidly devolve to name calling and spill over to nearly every subject and thread on the forum. That forum was nearly destroyed but the site operator ultimately stepped in, took a strong stand, and segregated the political stuff to an off-topic sub forum. The mods on that site are more than ready to corral anybody who doesn't want to follow the rules, and those who can't or won't follow the rules find themselves banned from participation.

I've never been a moderator on a forum, but my gut tells me that it's more time consuming than most think it is. Now, a page for controversial subjects has been created. I hope it doesn't consume too much of the mod's time. That would be bad for smooth administration of this site as a whole.

Guys, I've been on this forum for a long time. Below is what Jim, the original owner included in every post he made.

Be Respectful!
This site is rated PG, No Politics, No Porn, No Bashing allowed!

I am an old conservative veteran. From that you might be able to figure out my take on the events of the past week. However I out of of my respect for people that might hold different opinions I don't think we need to be expressing them on this forum. There are plenty of other places to do this.
I hope you all stay members and enjoy this site for what it is and has been, a great place to share information about boats and fishing.
Thanks all,
Mike

Just to beat a dead or dying horse a little more. Sure the flags posted were viewed as political. But they could have just been intended to be patriotic. It was a free election, something millions if not billions of people never get to partake in. It's a proud moment to vote and it's normal to be proud of our nation for holding elections like clockwork.

Could it have been handled better, yes. But in the wake of things it was dealt with like I'd expect mature adults to handle themselves.

Canoe said:

Guys, no politics has ALWAYS been the rules. I am enforcing them the way they have always been enforced.

No politics. It's divisive. It was decided well before I got here it wouldn't be allowed.

I'm sorry if people find this upsetting, but the original owner/team made this decision from day one to my understanding and I'm honoring it.

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That only bothers a certain type of person. Some folks feel that they must inject their politics into everything. Everyone is better off without them.

DANZIG said:

That only bothers a certain type of person. Some folks feel that they must inject their politics into everything. Everyone is better off without them.

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The flag only bothers a certain type of person. Questioning a persons intent and patriotism calls for knowing the operation of their mind, surely you don't possess those tools?

It would be helpful to be able to see the thread and post to understand the discussion?

Mad Dog 2 said:

It would be helpful to be able to see the thread and post to understand the discussion?

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Search up the "God bless America" thread. I think it can be found there.

Here ya go: https://www.tinboats.net/threads/god-bless-america.52228/