1972 Johnson 25Hp Refurbish

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Well they're both fed off one carb, so it has to be spark. Problem must be somewhere along the line in the ignition. One jug is getting a better spark than the other don't you think? As far as you're into this, might as well change everything in the ignition IMO.
 
Well they're both fed off one carb, so it has to be spark. Problem must be somewhere along the line in the ignition. One jug is getting a better spark than the other don't you think? As far as you're into this, might as well change everything in the ignition IMO.
Ma
 
Thanks, I might end up there, but not before I get a compression test. The carb kit had the wrong float valve seat. Waiting on a replacement kit. Want to mount the carb before I put the starter back on… then I’ll do the compression test and then figure out what in the ignition system might be the culprit. I don’t like throwing parts at a problem without a thorough diagnosis. Part of the enjoyment I get out of working on these old motors is the problem solving. I’ll bet others are wired that way too.
 
Finally got the right rebuild kit for the carb and the carb installled. While I was waiting for carb parts, I put a new impeller, along with some other grommets and o-rings. Also changed out the lower unit gear oil.

Once the carb was on and fuel lines replaced I was able to install the starter and check for spark and compression. All good… spark will jump 1/2 inch while compression was 120 on top and 115 on bottom. I was concerned about all that carbon on the bottom cylinder , but seemed to have dodged a bullet.
Now waiting for a new fuel pump ( first one didn’t fit) so I can put some gas to it and dial it in.
I do have to figure out how to do the external wiring for the engine remote control as the old harness has pretty much disintegrated. I’m looking for ideas.
 
I'm in the same spot with my 25. I went to ebay and saved pics of wiring harnesses. I'm not paying big bucks for a handful of old wires, but it gives me an idea of how it should all look. I also have been searching up pics of my motor and saving the pics that show the electric start components.

What I haven't figured out yet is how to route the battery cable into it. Some seem to have a 3rd hole in the front center of the cowl, which mine doesn't have. Guess I could drill one...... I don't have external controls though, mine I think should have a key in the front right hole where the kill switch now is, but not sure about that.

Good luck to you. Seems like you're due for some!
 
I'm in the same spot with my 25. I went to ebay and saved pics of wiring harnesses. I'm not paying big bucks for a handful of old wires, but it gives me an idea of how it should all look. I also have been searching up pics of my motor and saving the pics that show the electric start components.

What I haven't figured out yet is how to route the battery cable into it. Some seem to have a 3rd hole in the front center of the cowl, which mine doesn't have. Guess I could drill one...... I don't have external controls though, mine I think should have a key in the front right hole where the kill switch now is, but not sure about that.

Good luck to you. Seems like you're due for some!
That hole is for the start button.

Your wired may enter right under the starter near the fuel connector. Rectangular hole coming up from underneath.
 
That hole is for the start button.

Your wired may enter right under the starter near the fuel connector. Rectangular hole coming up from underneath.
Ok, back on my external wiring…pictures below. The external rubber sheath is pretty much shot. The internal wires are marine grade and the connector is good. My plan is to remove the rest of the old sheath, carefully inspect the wires and replace sheath with a new vinyl sheath seen the picture. I’ll make everything water tight with shrink tubing and then cover cable with a ribbed pvc cable protector. Any thoughts/critiques on this plan are appreciated.
 

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Only thought I have is, this is all going under the shroud? If so, being waterproof shouldn't really matter much right? I always shrink every connection though on anything I'm splicing wires together on.
 
Only thought I have is, this is all going under the shroud? If so, being waterproof shouldn't really matter much right? I always shrink every connection though on anything I'm splicing wires together on.
Got all of the external harness work done. Turned out pretty good and should last another 20 years.
Hooked it up to battery. Choke works and engine turns over. Checked again for spark, put lower end in a barrel of water.

Hooked up gas and tried to start. Engine turns over, but does not fire….not even a putter. Checked again for spark… ok on both cylinders. Wire with crimp band is on the top cylinder.
Checked for fuel at bowl…it was full. Pulled both plugs they are dry.

I tried enriching the idle screw 1/2 turn…. Still no hit. The idle mixture screw is at 1-1/4 turns from a soft seat in the last video.

My plan is to pull the carb and go back through it tomorrow.
Any other ideas would be welcome. Anything I should be paying particular attention to or checking. I did not pull the Welch plugs in my first “go thru”… maybe I should have.



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Got all of the external harness work done. Turned out pretty good and should last another 20 years.
Hooked it up to battery. Choke works and engine turns over. Checked again for spark, put lower end in a barrel of water.

Hooked up gas and tried to start. Engine turns over, but does not fire….not even a putter. Checked again for spark… ok on both cylinders. Wire with crimp band is on the top cylinder.
Checked for fuel at bowl…it was full. Pulled both plugs they are dry.

I tried enriching the idle screw 1/2 turn…. Still no hit. The idle mixture screw is at 1-1/4 turns from a soft seat in the last video.

My plan is to pull the carb and go back through it tomorrow.
Any other ideas would be welcome. Anything I should be paying particular attention to or checking. I did not pull the Welch plugs in my first “go thru”… maybe I should have.



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Update: Before I take the carb off, I wanted to check things out again and make some notes. I checked each of plugs for spark…both are good. I took the low speed needle valve out to about 2-1/2 turns from a soft seat. Tried to start the engine: no start, not even a kick. Pulled both plugs. Both were wet. Turned the engine over with plugs out to evacuate cylinder. Replaced plugs and returned the needle valve to 1 turn open. Tried to start.. not a hit. Opened the needle valve in 1/4 turn increments up to 2-1/2 turns and tried to start at each increment… still no start.
Couple of questions: where should the throttle roller be on the timing plate in relation to the double marks at “Start” throttle setting. How about choke :The motor has both a remote and manual choke…how long should I I choke the motor during start attempts?
Thanks for any and all help/suggestions.
 
I had the same situation with my 25. Turned out I had flooded it to the max! Let is sit for a couple days with the plugs out, 3/4 turns out on the jet and she fired up on the 2nd pull. My problem is I'm really new to boats and I kept working the bulb having heard that if the fuel pump is bad it'll run if you pump the bulb. Well I pumped it waaay too much! The time when I finally got it to fire I listened as I pumped the bulb. I could hear the fuel gurgling in. When it seemed I had plenty I quit.

Also did not pull the welch, figuring I'd see what would happen with just a simple cleaning. Carb seems fine, motor is fine, it was operator error. Duh. Actually it's running so good I promptly spun my prop. (insert cuss words of choice here)

As for choking the motor, if it's cold it needs to be choked. If it doesn't start right away you got something else going on. I *think* when flooded you don't want to choke it at all, but that method didn't get me anywhere either. The deal with the double marks and remember I don't know a lot, is that as the roller goes past the first mark the throttle should just be starting to move. I've been told this is not critical in starting it though.
 
I had the same situation with my 25. Turned out I had flooded it to the max! Let is sit for a couple days with the plugs out, 3/4 turns out on the jet and she fired up on the 2nd pull. My problem is I'm really new to boats and I kept working the bulb having heard that if the fuel pump is bad it'll run if you pump the bulb. Well I pumped it waaay too much! The time when I finally got it to fire I listened as I pumped the bulb. I could hear the fuel gurgling in. When it seemed I had plenty I quit.

Also did not pull the welch, figuring I'd see what would happen with just a simple cleaning. Carb seems fine, motor is fine, it was operator error. Duh. Actually it's running so good I promptly spun my prop. (insert cuss words of choice here)

As for choking the motor, if it's cold it needs to be choked. If it doesn't start right away you got something else going on. I *think* when flooded you don't want to choke it at all, but that method didn't get me anywhere either. The deal with the double marks and remember I don't know a lot, is that as the roller goes past the first mark the throttle should just be starting to move. I've been told this is not critical in starting it though.
Thanks, been thinking some more about my situation. I’ve got compression ( around 115 both cylinders), I’ve got spark ( l checked with both a tester 3/8-1/2” gap, and with the actual plugs gapped at .030”). And I’ve got fuel getting to the cylinders, but I don’t know that it is good fuel. I cleaned my tank, rinsed with straight gas and filled with 2 gallons of 50:1 mix. All fuel hoses in the engine were replaced a week or so prior to the start attempt. What I did not purge was the tank to the motor hose and bulb. Now, I just purged the hose and bulb…looks good with no water or contaminants. So tomorrow, before I pull the carb, I’m going to drain the bowl and motor fuel lines to be sure there is no water or contaminants that were present in hose and bulb during my initial start up tries. I’ll let you know how it goes. This has got it to be something simple.
 
Thanks, been thinking some more about my situation. I’ve got compression ( around 115 both cylinders), I’ve got spark ( l checked with both a tester 3/8-1/2” gap, and with the actual plugs gapped at .030”). And I’ve got fuel getting to the cylinders, but I don’t know that it is good fuel. I cleaned my tank, rinsed with straight gas and filled with 2 gallons of 50:1 mix. All fuel hoses in the engine were replaced a week or so prior to the start attempt. What I did not purge was the tank to the motor hose and bulb. Now, I just purged the hose and bulb…looks good with no water or contaminants. So tomorrow, before I pull the carb, I’m going to drain the bowl and motor fuel lines to be sure there is no water or contaminants that were present in hose and bulb during my initial start up tries. I’ll let you know how it goes. This has got it to be something simple.
buy a cheap spray bottle and squirt a little gas into carb, it should fire if you have spark, sometimes that will get the pump and everything going right after sitting. Don't ask me why but it does.
 
I agree. If it won't start with gas sprayed in the carb, taking the carb apart is probably not going to help. Are you sure you're starting it correctly? I picked up a Sears McCulloch last summer that would not start EVER unless the throttle was near wide open. You may try giving it a bunch more throttle and see what happens. I don't think you can use the markings on the tiller. At least with the motors I own, they seem quite a bit off on all of them. Not sure why that it.
 
buy a cheap spray bottle and squirt a little gas into carb, it should fire if you have spark, sometimes that will get the pump and everything going right after sitting. Don't ask me why but it does.
I might add that upon rare occasion I have had a fuel inlet needle and seat stick together (viton tip) preventing fuel from actually getting in the fuel bowl of the carburetor after cleaning and or overhaul. The primer bulb will pump up against the stuck needle and seat but no fuel gets into the fuel bowl. It will start and run briefly on a small squirt of fuel as recommended but cannot continue due to the lack of fuel in fuel bowl. I now add a tiny dab of Vaseline, Transgel or similar assembly lube to tip of viton needle. The all metal needles don't seem to stick to seat unless exposed to old fuel mix for extended periods. (varnish) I think that both types work very well otherwise so I would not avoid the viton tip needles for any reason. Additionally I do not recommend the caveman practice of tapping or banging on the carburetor to free the needle and seat.
 
Okay, the spark needs to be able to jump a static distance of at least 1/4" in order to fire a spark plug under compression. Check that.
Secondly, I read that you got it to feed until the spark plugs were wet. Wet with what? Pump some fuel from your fuel line into a clear glass container and let it sit for a couple minutes and look at it. May have water in the fuel. Nobody has suggested this simple issue yet from what I have read.
What kit did you put in? OEM or aftermarket in the carburetor?
Lets start here with the simple things and move on from there, okay?
 
Okay, the spark needs to be able to jump a static distance of at least 1/4" in order to fire a spark plug under compression. Check that.
Secondly, I read that you got it to feed until the spark plugs were wet. Wet with what? Pump some fuel from your fuel line into a clear glass container and let it sit for a couple minutes and look at it. May have water in the fuel. Nobody has suggested this simple issue yet from what I have read.
What kit did you put in? OEM or aftermarket in the carburetor?
Let’s start here with the simple things and move on from there, okay?
Thanks Pappy. The carburetor kit I installed was OEM from MarineEngines.com. Everything seemed to go together as expected. The plugs were wet , but not overly so. With what, I could not confirm. This morning I did drain the carburetor bowl into a small container. Something did not look right. The sample looked dark and a little murky. I compared it to fuel that was in the tank which was clear and a little reddish color… owing to the mix oil color. I used the bulb to pump fuel from the tank through to the carburetor bowl and out the bowl drain. After about a pint of fuel, the fuel out of the bowl drain cleared. I put the drain plug back in and gave the bulb a few more squeezes till I could feel resistance. The first start attempt with choke yielded nothing. I tried 3 more times…still no hit. I then tried a short squirt of starting fluid and got a couple of hits. I had checked the spark a day or two ago and saw at least 1/4” on both cylinders. I’ll check again and report back. I’m leaning toward bad fuel or a deteriorated bulb and line ( it sat unused for 25 years, but seemed ok when I tested it ) at this point that may have plugged some passage in the carb. I’m a little flummoxed and looking to systematically identify the problem. Pappy, I will confirm the spark gap…I’ll start at 1/4” and incrementally increase the gap til it won’t jump.
 
I checked the spark gap. Both cylinders at .400 inch. The next increment up yielded intermittent sparking and at .600 no spark.

I again drained the bowl and checked it against fuel in the tank. In the picture below the tank fuel is on the left…the bowl fuel on the right. The bowl fuel is definitely darker and not so cherry colored.


I’m thinking I should discard the fuel use another tank and get a
New bulb and hose. If that doesn’t produce results, then pull the carb and check for clogged
passages. 3A9C639A-602F-4DCF-BAD5-289D41D06A12.jpeg
 
Very often I will sit back and read what some of the other seasoned contributors will write. Hoping that we all eventually start with basics and move on from there.
Inside the large high speed emulsion tube there is the smaller bent or bowed idle lift tube. It goes from the bottom of the bowl to the top of the carb and feeds the calibrated idle feed holes in the pocket below the welch plug.......you did remove it and clean there, didn;t you???
If not that will be one of the first places to check. A piece of copper wire or a tag wire or leader wire can be used to clean and verify.
You did remove the high speed jet and verify it was clean, right? That jet has to feed fuel as both the idle and high speed fuel has to be fed by this jet.
There should be a seal that goes around the high speed lift tube to seal air so the vacuum supplied to the carburetor can lift fuel from the bottom of the bowl to each circuit. Yours may be part of the bowl gasket or a separate seal....check and make sure it is in place.
Be honest with what you did and did not do so others can read this and realize how important a good and thorough cleaning is. Let us know.
 

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