Battery Boxes OR Trays?

[AlanT]

“I'm not sure how it would leak outside the battery case unless there was some catastrophic physical damage to the battery case.”

If the manufacturer has poor quality control and a loose screw or other flotsam was left inside one of the cell cases it could eventually puncture the cell pouch. This could create a thermal event. (Or the same thing if the cell case has a sharp edge on an internal surface.)

These lessons were learned early on. At the consumer level, I wouldn’t be too concerned about it these days.

Understood. A battery case on a LifePO4 battery is a belt and suspenders and more suspenders approach because three cases would need to be breached for any leakage to occur - the cells, the battery enclosure, and the battery case. I use a battery case on my LifePO4 battery because I had it installed for previous batteries and preferred it to the terminal covers. My point was to make sure people understood the design of a LifePO4. The other point I want to make is there are designs designs for a "lithium" battery. A LifePO4 battery is lithium phosphate and car batteries are lithium ion. Lithium batteries have different characteristics and associated risks. This technology will continue to evolve and so will the risks.

 

[Tin Man]

Thanks for the advice and LiFePO descriptions.
I decided on the trays. Using NOCO ABYC approved trays.
Since the battery area is enclosed and appears to be designed as a battery compartment, it should work well. I will need to shim the batteries at the lower part of tray (between. battery and edges of tray) area so there will be almost no movement of battery. Without shim, there is approximately 1/2" of sliding movement within tray. Heavy duty NRS straps will be the hold downs.

 

[Still Afloat]

Understood. A battery case on a LifePO4 battery is a belt and suspenders and more suspenders approach because three cases would need to be breached for any leakage to occur - the cells, the battery enclosure, and the battery case. I use a battery case on my LifePO4 battery because I had it installed for previous batteries and preferred it to the terminal covers. My point was to make sure people understood the design of a LifePO4. The other point I want to make is there are designs designs for a "lithium" battery. A LifePO4 battery is lithium phosphate and car batteries are lithium ion. Lithium batteries have different characteristics and associated risks. This technology will continue to evolve and so will the risks.

A “leak” would most likely be hot gasses, perhaps some burning particles. I don’t think an extra plastic case would offer much protection in a thermal event.

Now if you took that case and added some foam to cushion the battery it could offer some protection from vibration and pounding.

 

[80monark]

I thought I had it all figured out, and then....I started thinking, which is not always a good thing (analysis-paralysis) !!!

What if my LiFePo4 batts started to leak (ex. crack or split in casing)?

I used battery boxes in all of my previous boats (all were LA batts).
This new Tracker came with a LA batt up front on a tray... under forward deck there is a compartment for batteries. First time I ever found a battery on a boat in a tray.

Now I'm installing two 12V LiFePo4 batts in the same location and thought of using trays....now I'm concerned about potential leakage and damaging/burning through the aluminum hull. LifePo batts can leak.

Also, securing batts to thin alum deck is also a concern. There is no access to underside for through bolting...only sheet metal screws can be used (as was done with OEM battery and tray).

I also have one group 24LA starting batt in rear of boat in a dedicated battery compartment. Compartment is too small to accommodate boxes...only trays. Boat came new with one 12V group 24 LA batt. My plan in to add a second group 24 LA as a house batt.

1. What are you doing for batts in your tin boats....boxes, trays, or something else?
2. Thoughts on potential acid spillage?
3. How are you securing to floor/deck?

Thanks!

I purchased an aluminum battery tray supporting two group 27 agm batteries from Bass Boat Technologies for $65.00. Iam very pleased with setup.

I thought I had it all figured out, and then....I started thinking, which is not always a good thing (analysis-paralysis) !!!

What if my LiFePo4 batts started to leak (ex. crack or split in casing)?

I used battery boxes in all of my previous boats (all were LA batts).
This new Tracker came with a LA batt up front on a tray... under forward deck there is a compartment for batteries. First time I ever found a battery on a boat in a tray.

Now I'm installing two 12V LiFePo4 batts in the same location and thought of using trays....now I'm concerned about potential leakage and damaging/burning through the aluminum hull. LifePo batts can leak.

Also, securing batts to thin alum deck is also a concern. There is no access to underside for through bolting...only sheet metal screws can be used (as was done with OEM battery and tray).

I also have one group 24LA starting batt in rear of boat in a dedicated battery compartment. Compartment is too small to accommodate boxes...only trays. Boat came new with one 12V group 24 LA batt. My plan in to add a second group 24 LA as a house batt.

1. What are you doing for batts in your tin boats....boxes, trays, or something else?
2. Thoughts on potential acid spillage?
3. How are you securing to floor/deck?

Thanks!

I purchased an aluminum battery tray supporting two group 27 agm batteries from Bass Boat Technologies for $65.00. Iam very pleased with setup.

 

[80monark]

I purchased an aluminum battery tray supporting two group 27 agm batteries from Bass Boat Technologies for $65.00. Iam very pleased with setup.

 

[Zum]

This is going to be my first year using a lifepo4 battery. I bought box, Im not to sure how watertight these batteries are and I figured siince it doesnt produce any gas, may as well inclose it. I only ever used trays with my lead acid batteries.

 

[LDUBS]

This is going to be my first year using a lifepo4 battery. I bought box, Im not to sure how watertight these batteries are and I figured siince it doesnt produce any gas, may as well inclose it. I only ever used trays with my lead acid batteries.

Even so, batt boxes are not airtight, so if venting happens you are OK.

My heavy Group 31 AGM battery is still going strong. By the time I need to replace it I wonder what new bells and whistles will be available.

 

[Tin Man]

I'm debating between TWO LA group 24s or ONE of the Sam's Club Duracell AGM Group 27 for my starting/house battery. They don't sell a Group 31 or I'd get one. Since a box will not fit in this battery compartment, a tray will be used.....this is the reason for considering the AGM.

 

[LDUBS]

I'm debating between TWO LA group 24s or ONE of the Sam's Club Duracell AGM Group 27 for my starting/house battery. They don't sell a Group 31 or I'd get one. Since a box will not fit in this battery compartment, a tray will be used.....this is the reason for considering the AGM.

My Group 31 AGM is exactly the one you mention -- Duracell from Sam's club. Been a good battery so far. The only thing I don't like is the weight. I think it is at 60# or 65#. I wonder why they don't sell it any more.

 

[Zum]

Even so, batt boxes are not airtight, so if venting happens you are OK.

My heavy Group 31 AGM battery is still going strong. By the time I need to replace it I wonder what new bells and whistles will be available.

I still have a good group 31 LA battery as well, probably 4 years old, everstart brand(Walmart). Think weight was the biggest consideration; why I bought the lifpo4.
From what I seen in town good brand name LA deep cycles cost more than the lifepo4's. A Nautilus group 31 is $406 and the AGM Nautilus is $666....crazy. Cheapest group 31 is $215, for a deep cycle...so the lifepo4's are right there in price. Time will tell how it lasts, but if the cycles are half of what they say, i should still get 5 plus years.

 

[flatheadsteve]

I really hope the lifepo4 I bought works out if it does I will slowly replace a couple other agm batteries I have in dump trailers and for winches on equipment trailers. I paid less for the 36v55ah than my last 12v group 31agm.

 

[mirrocraft16]

If a 'thermo event' is a concern with a particular battery then I'd make sure I have a fire extingquiser onboard that's capable of handling it, or a way to quick disconnect it and throw it overboard. I've seen some lithium ion fires in cars, if it were to happen in a boat, I could picture it burning through the hull in short order.

I've not dealt with any lifepo4 batteries but with Li-Ion batteries its usually a short of some type that sets off a thermal meltdown. I'd make real sure that the batteries are protected from making contact with the hull or being shorted out in any way.
An upset #27 lead acid battery can melt some wires and throw a ton of sparks but its over once the short melts away, but with lithium, its just the beginning.
I think I'd opt for a fully insulated enclosure if it were me, you likely won't have any options if it does short but you certainly limit the likelyhood of it ever happening if the battery is in a plastic box.
On both of my boats, the trolling motor, both batteries, and forward trolling motor harness all have heavy gauge disconnects. I have a similar one on my anchor winch on my 16ft which allows me to simply pull the plug and four pins and take the winch off when the boat is parked in the yard. Mainly to save the cover but it also keeps the winch from having to sit out in the weather all year.

I also pull my batteries when not in use, they reside on a rack in the garage on a smart charger. With the disconnects, battery boxes, and handles I put on them it only takes a few minutes to remove everything.

 

[LDUBS]

From what I'm reading the LiFePO4 batt's are much safer than the Lithium ion ones. Less chance of a thermal runaway and if it does happen, far less severe. Still, defects and poor QC are possible so I would opt for the box given a choice.

 

[Still Afloat]

If a 'thermo event' is a concern with a particular battery then I'd make sure I have a fire extingquiser onboard that's capable of handling it, or a way to quick disconnect it and throw it overboard. I've seen some lithium ion fires in cars, if it were to happen in a boat, I could picture it burning through the hull in short order.

I've not dealt with any lifepo4 batteries but with Li-Ion batteries its usually a short of some type that sets off a thermal meltdown. I'd make real sure that the batteries are protected from making contact with the hull or being shorted out in any way.
An upset #27 lead acid battery can melt some wires and throw a ton of sparks but its over once the short melts away, but with lithium, its just the beginning.
I think I'd opt for a fully insulated enclosure if it were me, you likely won't have any options if it does short but you certainly limit the likelyhood of it ever happening if the battery is in a plastic box.
On both of my boats, the trolling motor, both batteries, and forward trolling motor harness all have heavy gauge disconnects. I have a similar one on my anchor winch on my 16ft which allows me to simply pull the plug and four pins and take the winch off when the boat is parked in the yard. Mainly to save the cover but it also keeps the winch from having to sit out in the weather all year.

I also pull my batteries when not in use, they reside on a rack in the garage on a smart charger. With the disconnects, battery boxes, and handles I put on them it only takes a few minutes to remove everything.

I think this is getting out of control a bit. Like LDUBS said, Lithium Iron Phosphate is much safer than Lithium Ion. Unless someone does something really stupid a thermal event is unlikely. If it did happen the last thing that you would want to do is try to grab it and toss it overboard.

Heck, a guy can blow up a lead acid battery too.

 

[LDUBS]

Tin Boat's version of the China syndrome!

 

[thill]

I had a guy blow my car battery up once when I needed a jump. I saw him about to put the cable on the wrong terminal and I yelled, "WAIT!" but it was too late.

BOOM!

It shattered like glass! Battery acid everywhere!

Thankfully, none got in our eyes. I ran and got a hose and hosed both of us off, as well as the car. Huge thank-you prayers that day! I was probably 18 at the time. Could have been tragic for both of us.

The LiFeP04 batteries are supposed to be much safer, especially if the BMS is working properly. There are a number of YouTube videos on the subject. You should watch some. I'm comfortable with the brand I purchased and with LiFeP04 batteries in general after doing my research.

 

[lightflyer1]

Back in the late 60's my dad did the same thing at one of our stops going up the Alaska highway.

 

[LaqueRatt]

I had one blow up like that one time AND I had the cables hooked up correctly. A battery can be like a bomb. I've seen two blow up and was picking up pieces 20' away. Never lean over a battery when hooking it up to anything.

 

[ripdmup]

Box and Tray in both of my Crafts.

 

[LDUBS]

Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll put my box on a tray.!