Electronics, Fishing, and Trolling Motors

[Tin Man]

Looking to upgrade my stock 12V/42# TM and FF/GPS.
Upgrade: 24V/80#/60" with Lithium Batts.

Lithium Batts.....Two 12Vs or one 24V?
Lithium Specific charger?

FF/GPS:
Purchased a new Lowrance Live 9. Was planning to install at console. Would like a graph at bow.
Perhaps I should have thought about my Live 9 purchase and future upgrades and compatibility with other units...?
Before I purchase another FF, I need to make a decision on direction of brand and compatibility.

Fishing style: Trolling for Stripers and Typical fishing for Bass, Crappie, Bluegill....on So Cal Reservoirs and AZ Lakes.
Minn Kota or Motorguide TM (keeping TM cost under $2500)?

Which FF... are the TM brand specific?
Garmin Panoptix...what does it do?
Do Lowrance and Hummingbird make something similar?
What else am I missing?

Thanks!

 

[flatheadsteve]

Garmin panoptix is livescope technology. Lowrance calls it active target. Hummingbird calls it live target.
If you already have the lowrance live 9 than I would stick with lowrance everything. The trolling motor is over your budget but will interface with your GPS and give you anchoring , auto steer and so many more useful features. There might be a way to get the lowrance GPS to "talk" to a motor guide or minn kota trolling motor but I'm not positive. As for the single 24v vs 2 12v batteries that depends on you and your setup. A single battery saves space but then you lose the ability to utilize it as a backup for the cranking/house battery. I have 3 12v crammed in my center console and have often thought of getting a single 36v to save space what's holding me back is my cranking/house battery has a lot of stuff on it and we use a lot of juice night fishing. I've never killed it and not been able to start the outboard but I got it down to 11.8 volts one night. Luckily that was enough to get the motor started but I keep jumper cables onboard that will reach from the console to the cranking battery just in case.

 

[jethro]

What you are talking about is called live imaging. Think of it as an actual picture (or video as it is) of what is going on under the water. The transducers are directional and can show you exactly how far away a fish is. It is so detailed sometimes you can actually determine species of fish on the screen. You can see it's tail, what direction it's swimming... and in live time. It's really incredible technology. You can go online and see comparisons of each live imaging technology and what it does. It's expensive so you really want to do your research to see if you absolutely have to have it. Where it excels in my opinion is more with still fishing/jigging then trolling, but it has advantages for everything. I'm a dyed in the wool Humminbird user and have been for many years, but if I am buying live imaging it's gonna be Garmin Panoptix for me. That's just an opinion, they are all good. Keep in mind any live imaging is a much bigger battery drain than anything you've used previously. Not really an issue for you as you are upgrading your batteries as well, but something to keep in mind.

And at the risk of sounding too much like a Garmin fan boy, I would seriously look at their offerings for trolling motors. I especially like how you don't have to change motors to go from 12v, 24v or 36v. Allows for upgradability without having to change the motor.

Between my 36v Minn Kota Ulterra and Helix 9's I have easily $5,000 invested in Johnson Outdoors products but if I had to do it again right now I would look heavily at the Garmin stuff.

 

[MrGiggles]

A single 24v battery will prevent you from running any of the onboard chargers on the market that can charge a lithium battery (like the Noco). Dual 12s is a better solution IMO. While you're buying, you might as well get a third for electronics, and a 3-4 bank charger. Do it right from the beginning.

There is no cross compatibility between graph brands. That Lowrance will only work with another Lowrance, and will only pair with their trolling motor. That said, I think the capability of pairing the graph to the trolling motor is a very over hyped feature, it's not something I see myself or others ever using with regularity.

Minn Kota's US2 sonar will work on any graph with the right adapter, but the MDI/SI will only work on a Humminbird, these are the transducers that are built in the trolling motor, if you choose to use it. On most motors it is easy enough to strap the transducer from the graph on and just use it.

I will agree that you want a trolling motor with GPS capability, it's worth it. I have never been around Motorguide so I can't comment much on that, Minnkota has a pretty good reputation for supporting their products with replacement parts so I'm partial to them. My Terrova is 14 years old and I can still get pretty much every part made for it.

Live imaging (also called forward facing sonar) is incredible and worth it, if you can afford it. Best way I can describe it is like a cross between regular sonar and a live camera. In many ways it has rendered my old sonar units obsolete, with Livescope I can drop the trolling motor down and do a sweep 50ft out in all directions to see the bottom composition, any fish, structure etc. in the area. My graphs are pretty much only used for running livescope and mapping. I do use it sometimes for trolling, as it can show you where a specific dropoff or bottom feature is well ahead of the boat so you can maneuver accordingly.

I see Bass Pro has the 106SV (I think) for a grand on Black Friday. Not a bad deal. Now that the second gen Livescope is out, I've seen some of the older setups selling for quite a bit less on the used market.

 

[flatheadsteve]

Depending on the type of fishing you do having the tm/GPS synced together will determine how valuable that option is for you. I troll in the spring pre selecting the coarse and having the trolling motor steer the boat itself leaving me to tend rods or eats a snack or whatever else made it worth it for me. You can also select a contour line and have the trolling motor follow it . Get with a knowledgeable dealer and have them go over all the ins and outs . The new units out now have a lot to offer.

 

[LDUBS]

Mine don't sync up, but I think I would enjoy being able to follow a track or contour line.

 

[thill]

Amazon - TimeUSB 12V 100AH PRO LiFeP04 Lithium battery - Amazon.com

I have two of these, and they are outstanding. And the price is crazy-good. And their customer service is top-notch.

I got a strange reading when I was charging one of them for the first time, and their tech department got on the phone with me to troubleshoot. Turns out, the brand new battery held more charge than my cheap "smart" charger could understand. Was not a problem, I just didn't know what I was looking at. Those guys are awesome. I wish every company had tech support like that!

These batteries have power to go. I have not been able to discharge them in a single day, no matter how much I use them, even in heavy currents. They get 5 stars from me.

 

[LDUBS]

What you are talking about is called live imaging. Think of it as an actual picture (or video as it is) of what is going on under the water. The transducers are directional and can show you exactly how far away a fish is. It is so detailed sometimes you can actually determine species of fish on the screen. You can see it's tail, what direction it's swimming... and in live time. It's really incredible technology. You can go online and see comparisons of each live imaging technology and what it does. It's expensive so you really want to do your research to see if you absolutely have to have it. Where it excels in my opinion is more with still fishing/jigging then trolling, but it has advantages for everything. I'm a dyed in the wool Humminbird user and have been for many years, but if I am buying live imaging it's gonna be Garmin Panoptix for me. That's just an opinion, they are all good. Keep in mind any live imaging is a much bigger battery drain than anything you've used previously. Not really an issue for you as you are upgrading your batteries as well, but something to keep in mind.

And at the risk of sounding too much like a Garmin fan boy, I would seriously look at their offerings for trolling motors. I especially like how you don't have to change motors to go from 12v, 24v or 36v. Allows for upgradability without having to change the motor.

Between my 36v Minn Kota Ulterra and Helix 9's I have easily $5,000 invested in Johnson Outdoors products but if I had to do it again right now I would look heavily at the Garmin stuff.

What you say about it not being as advantageous for trolling is interesting. At least to me, because about all I do is troll in deep water.

All of the fish finder technology now days seems to focus on imaging in shallow water. Down and side imaging doesn't really do much for me. I wonder how live imaging technology works in deep (100'+) water to identify fish suspended say 35' - 70'? I've not been able to find sample screen views on the various sites that show anything like this situation.

 

[airshot]

If you fish for a living and your income depends on your performance, I can understand all this high tech and very expensive electronics. I fish beccause I enjoy being on the water, my family loves to eat fish...could I afford to go out and buy all this high-tech stuff....yes, but why ?? I learned a long time back spending money won't put more fish in the cooler as so many think. I have found getting electronics that are outdated, mabey 10 years old work very well for hobby fisherman like me. Not only that, I can buy them for 20-25 cents on rhe dollar as there are many willing to unload there " old" stuff to get the newest and latest. Guess I am just venting here, reading and listening about all these high-tech gizmos, makes me think...is there no skill, fun or challenge left in fishing anymore ?? Guess to each his own...but...going out, push some buttons, hook the fish, take a picture and go back in doesn't sound like much fun, kinda boring actually.
But hey, your money, spend it as you wish, me....I am just gonna have fun....

 

[jethro]

What you say about it not being as advantageous for trolling is interesting. At least to me, because about all I do is troll in deep water.

All of the fish finder technology now days seems to focus on imaging in shallow water. Down and side imaging doesn't really do much for me. I wonder how live imaging technology works in deep (100'+) water to identify fish suspended say 35' - 70'? I've not been able to find sample screen views on the various sites that show anything like this situation.

Garmin latest Panoptix's transducer will image clearly up to 200 feet away from the transducer. I'd love to get it for ice fishing but I can't justify the cost. Some coldwater trolling guys say side imaging is good for trolling early season because the salmon and trout are way up high and the boat spooks them to the side and you can see this with side imaging. I have side imaging and don't find it a huge asset for this purpose.

If you fish for a living and your income depends on your performance, I can understand all this high tech and very expensive electronics. I fish beccause I enjoy being on the water, my family loves to eat fish...could I afford to go out and buy all this high-tech stuff....yes, but why ?? I learned a long time back spending money won't put more fish in the cooler as so many think. I have found getting electronics that are outdated, mabey 10 years old work very well for hobby fisherman like me. Not only that, I can buy them for 20-25 cents on rhe dollar as there are many willing to unload there " old" stuff to get the newest and latest. Guess I am just venting here, reading and listening about all these high-tech gizmos, makes me think...is there no skill, fun or challenge left in fishing anymore ?? Guess to each his own...but...going out, push some buttons, hook the fish, take a picture and go back in doesn't sound like much fun, kinda boring actually.
But hey, your money, spend it as you wish, me....I am just gonna have fun....

Have you ever sight fished before? Sight fishing is a blast. Live imaging is kinda similar and it is actually super fun using the equipment to do that. You see what the fish responds to and it's very interactive. I totally get what you are saying but you can say this about a lot of stuff involved with the pursuit of fishing. Surfcasters here in the Northeast will tell you fishing for stripers using a boat is cheating. Fly fishermen will tell you having a barb on your hook is cheating. It's all relative if you think about it. I have a few friends that use Panoptixs when still fishing and it's amazing. But you still need to know where to fish, when to fish and how to fish. You still need to understand the species you're targeting. It still requires a whole pile of skill, trust me. Have you ever ice fished with a camera? It's a hoot interacting with fish. I still have fun fishing no matter what I'm doing. I'd have fun noodling for catfish with nothing other than a pair of swim trunks and water shoes for gear, but I'd also have a whole lot of fun if I had a 60' Hattaras and $100k in tuna gear. It's all relative.

 

[airshot]

Garmin latest Panoptix's transducer will image clearly up to 200 feet away from the transducer. I'd love to get it for ice fishing but I can't justify the cost. Some coldwater trolling guys say side imaging is good for trolling early season because the salmon and trout are way up high and the boat spooks them to the side and you can see this with side imaging. I have side imaging and don't find it a huge asset for this purpose.



Have you ever sight fished before? Sight fishing is a blast. Live imaging is kinda similar and it is actually super fun using the equipment to do that. You see what the fish responds to and it's very interactive. I totally get what you are saying but you can say this about a lot of stuff involved with the pursuit of fishing. Surfcasters here in the Northeast will tell you fishing for stripers using a boat is cheating. Fly fishermen will tell you having a barb on your hook is cheating. It's all relative if you think about it. I have a few friends that use Panoptixs when still fishing and it's amazing. But you still need to know where to fish, when to fish and how to fish. You still need to understand the species you're targeting. It still requires a whole pile of skill, trust me. Have you ever ice fished with a camera? It's a hoot interacting with fish. I still have fun fishing no matter what I'm doing. I'd have fun noodling for catfish with nothing other than a pair of swim trunks and water shoes for gear, but I'd also have a whole lot of fun if I had a 60' Hattaras and $100k in tuna gear. It's all relative

Just doing some venting, sometimes it seems you need the newest and best on the market or your not a real fisherman.

 

[LDUBS]

If you fish for a living and your income depends on your performance, I can understand all this high tech and very expensive electronics. I fish beccause I enjoy being on the water, my family loves to eat fish...could I afford to go out and buy all this high-tech stuff....yes, but why ?? I learned a long time back spending money won't put more fish in the cooler as so many think. I have found getting electronics that are outdated, mabey 10 years old work very well for hobby fisherman like me. Not only that, I can buy them for 20-25 cents on rhe dollar as there are many willing to unload there " old" stuff to get the newest and latest. Guess I am just venting here, reading and listening about all these high-tech gizmos, makes me think...is there no skill, fun or challenge left in fishing anymore ?? Guess to each his own...but...going out, push some buttons, hook the fish, take a picture and go back in doesn't sound like much fun, kinda boring actually.
But hey, your money, spend it as you wish, me....I am just gonna have fun....

If I could buy a new 2D sonar upgrade without having to pay for the fancy imaging, I would. But, they apparently don't make such a thing.

I guess I'll have to wait for someone to give me one for my endorsement. Might be a long wait! hahaha

 

[jethro]

If I could buy a new 2D sonar upgrade without having to pay for the fancy imaging, I would. But, they apparently don't make such a thing.

I guess I'll have to wait for someone to give me one for my endorsement. Might be a long wait! hahaha

Oh no, that's not correct. You can buy plenty of units without any imaging but you have to stay below the 7" screen size. If you want like a 10", which is the smallest I'd personally buy, you have to get at least a down imaging unit.

 

[LDUBS]

Oh no, that's not correct. You can buy plenty of units without any imaging but you have to stay below the 7" screen size. If you want like a 10", which is the smallest I'd personally buy, you have to get at least a down imaging unit.

Thanks for clarifying. My comment was not very precise. I currently use a Helix 7 and split the screen 60/40 between sonar and the map. I could get a sonar/gps unit in the Helix 5, but not excited about the smaller screen.

Another thing I notice for HB Helix 7 units is the option for side imaging is cheaper than down imaging. As it stands I'm not really in the market unless I see a really big mark down. So far, nothing is making be reach for my wallet.

 

[Still Afloat]

Thanks for clarifying. My comment was not very precise. I currently use a Helix 7 and split the screen 60/40 between sonar and the map. I could get a sonar/gps unit in the Helix 5, but not excited about the smaller screen.

Another thing I notice for HB Helix 7 units is the option for side imaging is cheaper than down imaging. As it stands I'm not really in the market unless I see a really big mark down. So far, nothing is making be reach for my wallet.

I used to do the same but recently I’ve discovered that the less attention I pay to the Helix, the more fish I catch. At least, once I know the structure in the areas that I fish.

I’m using one Helix 7 for navigation and the other two for sonar. SI and DI are interesting for structure. I rarely see fish in SI/DI modes, mostly structure.

I picked up a new to me boat this week that came with a Lowrance HDS 9 gen 3. The touch screen and menu are quicker and more intuitive than the Helix 7. I wasn’t impressed with the sonar and imaging but, that is likely just set up. It does do very well at reading depth while on plane. Unfortunately I won”t be able to play with it until spring.

 

[LDUBS]

I used to do the same but recently I’ve discovered that the less attention I pay to the Helix, the more fish I catch. At least, once I know the structure in the areas that I fish.

I’m using one Helix 7 for navigation and the other two for sonar. SI and DI are interesting for structure. I rarely see fish in SI/DI modes, mostly structure.

I picked up a new to me boat this week that came with a Lowrance HDS 9 gen 3. The touch screen and menu are quicker and more intuitive than the Helix 7. I wasn’t impressed with the sonar and imaging but, that is likely just set up. It does do very well at reading depth while on plane. Unfortunately I won”t be able to play with it until spring.

Good point. Nothing replaces experience and local knowledge. Sometimes I think I rely more on the map contours than I do on the sonar. My Helix 7 has DI. Not much use in deep water.

 

[thill]

Good point... My Helix 7 has DI. Not much use in deep water.

That is curious, Dubs. I use my Garmin DI a lot in deep water, and it does a great job showing me what is down there. There are some wrecks at the mouth of the Ches. Bay, and it's amazing the detail they show. My SI works great, too, but neither shows fish very well, except for big drum, which show up like rocks suspended off the bottom with shadows.

I'm guessing your Lowrance will show it just as clearly, if not better. Maybe reset all options, and see how it looks using the default settings? I personally love how Lowrance images. I only got the Garmin 94SV because it was cheap on sale.

 

[Still Afloat]

My new boat came with a Lowrance HDS9 GEN3. I only used it during the test drive but, it was impressing that it read depth up to about 25mph which is about twice what my helix 7’s will do. My only complaint so far with that version of the HDS is very poor screen resolution. The graphics have been upgraded in the newer Carbon and Live versions.

 

[LDUBS]

That is curious, Dubs. I use my Garmin DI a lot in deep water, and it does a great job showing me what is down there. There are some wrecks at the mouth of the Ches. Bay, and it's amazing the detail they show. My SI works great, too, but neither shows fish very well, except for big drum, which show up like rocks suspended off the bottom with shadows.

I'm guessing your Lowrance will show it just as clearly, if not better. Maybe reset all options, and see how it looks using the default settings? I personally love how Lowrance images. I only got the Garmin 94SV because it was cheap on sale.

Mine is a Humminbird. I suspect my difference in perspective is because of the fishing style and type of fish targeted. During warm months I'm typically in 100' to 250' of water. I'm not fishing the bottom. I target trout suspended anywhere from 35' to 55' (more or less depending on time of year and water temps). What is on the bottom isn't as important to me compared to marking the depth the fish are suspended in the water column. I guess when I say the DI is not much use, I mean I don't have a use for it.

 

[thill]

Aaaahhh, I see. Yes, DI wouldn't be of any use in the situation of chasing schools of fish in open water.

I'm generally in 100' or less, and I am often fishing around underwater structure. The DI and SI show me the structure, and the traditional sonar shows me how high the fish are.