Help with atypical motor setup

[flatheadsteve]

You already have the 25hp motor a 14-16ft hull to put it on will probably be comparable in cost to the materials/modifications you planned to make to accommodate it on the larger hull. I would look for a old tin slap the 25hp on it and enjoy that on the restricted lakes while you spruce up the bigger hull and outboard. Something cheap and simple.

 

[PunkR0ckz]

You already have the 25hp motor a 14-16ft hull to put it on will probably be comparable in cost to the materials/modifications you planned to make to accommodate it on the larger hull. I would look for a old tin slap the 25hp on it and enjoy that on the restricted lakes while you spruce up the bigger hull and outboard. Something cheap and simple.

I don't have the real estate for a 2nd boat, and I have access to almost free materials. Plus, a 14-16ft hull, I've been looking for 2 years now, and they are over 5 000$ around here, without an engine and sometimes without a trailer. This is also part of the reason why I want to try to make it work on that much bigger hull that needs little work to achieve what I want as far as fishability.
I've seen in plenty of FB groups people selling similar hulls to what we have here for 10-15% of the price that is asked around here. For example, a Tracker v16 in the US seems to sell for 1200-1500$ with an engine, while around here they were selling for 5500$ without one hehe

 

[LDUBS]

I'll give it a few days/months in hope that someone has other helpful hints, comments or even real life experiences to share with a similar situation. I can't work on it this winter at all anyway.

Feel free to post any other questions or comments you might have, it might get my hamster wheel spinning and help me (or you) come up with a solution hehe.

Thanks y'all for the replies this far!

The ideas are percolating. That is a good thing!

Using the boat for awhile is an excellent idea before jumping into big modifications. Give you a chance to make sure changes fit your needs.

Again that is a nice rig. I look forward to watching this develop.

BTW, does anyone know the reason they used those "fender well" looking shapes in the splash well area? I kind of like them, but seems a more boxy shape would be more practical.

 

[LaqueRatt]

I get all that, I'm like that too. Some ideas though you just gotta give up on. This is one of them. Move on sir. Find something better to use your great intellect on.

 

[PunkR0ckz]

The ideas are percolating. That is a good thing!

Using the boat for awhile is an excellent idea before jumping into big modifications. Give you a chance to make sure changes fit your needs.

Again that is a nice rig. I look forward to watching this develop.

BTW, does anyone know the reason they used those "fender well" looking shapes in the splash well area? I kind of like them, but seems a more boxy shape would be more practical.

I believe it was done this way so you could drill holes on the sloped parts and have a gas tank on one side or the other, when you didn't order the subfloor gas tank (from what I seem to understand, it was an option back then). I also think that it was done to help with evacuating the water and incorporate switches for the hydraulic trim... not 100% sure though... it would make sense, having a low to the ground sloped part is easier to "operate" than a vertical one.

 

[flatheadsteve]

Stabicraft uses .154 aluminum on its smallest boat that's stout! I think it would take a lot of reinforcing to do it on your starcraft. That's a really nice old boat you have before diving in on this project I would check the legality where you plan to use it. I don't have a clue the ramifications for operating overweight/capacity in Canada but in the States lawyers love to sue over things like that if ever in an accident. Even if it's not your fault .

 

[LDUBS]

I believe it was done this way so you could drill holes on the sloped parts and have a gas tank on one side or the other, when you didn't order the subfloor gas tank (from what I seem to understand, it was an option back then). I also think that it was done to help with evacuating the water and incorporate switches for the hydraulic trim... not 100% sure though... it would make sense, having a low to the ground sloped part is easier to "operate" than a vertical one.

My boat has "boxes" either side of the splash well. Not as fancy.

Had another thought on an alternative to a transom door that might still deliver on your objective. Redesign the splash well so you have seats either side (where the "fender wells" are), or at least on the side of the swim platform. It would be easy to use the seat as step over the transom and onto the swim platform. I once had a boat that had a similar set-up. I think that live well is providing a lot of strength. You will need to account for that if you change the configuration.

Anyway, just blue sky stuff.

 

[LDUBS]

Stabicraft uses .154 aluminum on its smallest boat that's stout! I think it would take a lot of reinforcing to do it on your starcraft. That's a really nice old boat you have before diving in on this project I would check the legality where you plan to use it. I don't have a clue the ramifications for operating overweight/capacity in Canada but in the States lawyers love to sue over things like that if ever in an accident. Even if it's not your fault .

"lawyers love to sue over things like that if ever in an accident. Even if it's not your fault ."

And as already pointed out, the claims adjuster will love invoking the exception about making a boat unseaworthy, So you will be on your own.

 

[PunkR0ckz]

My boat has "boxes" either side of the splash well. Not as fancy.

Had another thought on an alternative to a transom door that might still deliver on your objective. Redesign the splash well so you have seats either side (where the "fender wells" are), or at least on the side of the swim platform. It would be easy to use the seat as step over the transom and onto the swim platform. I once had a boat that had a similar set-up. I think that live well is providing a lot of strength. You will need to account for that if you change the configuration.

Anyway, just blue sky stuff.

Sorry, I'm not quite sure to understand which "live well" you're refering to? There is no live wells in my Starcraft. Are you refering to Stabicraft's setup? If so, I wanted to do something kind of similar with mine, as I mentioned early on in the discussion, but instead of being a live well, it would be a big storage compartment for a cooler on wheel, anchor and life jackets, so technically, it would be as stout as theirs (minus the hull thickness, but I would replace the plywood with 1.5 x 1.5 aluminum tubing anyway, as it is supposed to be 2 sheets of 3/4 plywood)

Funnily enough, while driving my uncle to the car garage, I thought of the same thing. I was like "Hum, I could possibly cut enough of the splash well and reshape it and then make a step up there instead of the door, it wouldn't be as fancy, but it would still do the same thing", and then, on the back of the transom, I could make a structure similar to a floating pod, which would protect the transducer from tree branches and whatnot (a 5 sided box with the underside empty to be able to put the transducer in there).

 

[PunkR0ckz]

"lawyers love to sue over things like that if ever in an accident. Even if it's not your fault ."

And as already pointed out, the claims adjuster will love invoking the exception about making a boat unseaworthy, So you will be on your own.

Yeah, well, I only go on rivers and lakes, I'm far from the sea... so nothing should even come close to entering the boat from the transom side. I've been in much smaller utility boats (12 and 14ft aluminum boats) with 15" transoms and nothing would even come close to entering it. Plus, most boat here don't have a splash well. The "equivalent" boat to my Starcraft Offshore is the "Princecraft SP165 or SP175" and they have a much lower splash well. It is about the same height as the transom, but it goes about as "deep" as the Starcraft (to allow for the head of the motor), whereas the Starcraft goes up to the gunwhales. If by shortening the splashwell it makes it "unseaworthy", then the SP165/SP175 from Princecraft are unseaworthy from factory as well hehe.

Anyway, I'll tinker with a pen and paper with ideas I have now with all the discussions we've had and we'll see what I come up with. I can't wait. I'm loving it, it is much more civil on here than FB groups lol.

 

[thill]

Sorry, I'm late to the party, and I haven't read all of the replies. I'll go back and read this evening.

Don't be upset if you get a little resistance to your ideas. Thinking men debate all the time, and the result is often a thoroughly thought-out end product.

Stay cool, and don't feel threatened or offended. Listen to everyone. There is a huge amount of experience and knowledge here, so chew on suggestions before accepting or discarding. Once you decide on a course of action, the folks here will respect it and will try to help you reach your goals in the smartest way possible.

Like you, I recently got a 16' boat for cheap. It was a "fish and ski" type, and I didn't like the layout of the boat. I put it up here for discussion, and I got a lot of suggestions. Some I liked, some I didn't. But folks helped me think it out carefully before making any final decisions.

What I ended up doing was make the entire front into a single platform, and I also put a small platform in the back with a small splash well. I am very happy with the end result. Here is a picture of it during the "test and see" process:


It took a bit of work and material to reinforce the transom area properly, but well worth the effort. That little platform gave me rigidity, a place to cast from, comfortable seating, and it made it much easier to get in and out of the boat with the ladder that isn't in the picture. This was important, since we swim and tube in the summer.

Here are a few more pictures. Since then, I've refined things, and I still have more to do in time:




But enough about my boat, on to your boat...

I had a Starcraft last year with the same rear area as yours. As you state, it takes up a LOT of real estate. And, as stated by others, it is a structural part of the boat, so it will take some careful planning to re-engineer it to be both strong and safe, but it can be done.

Are you comfortable with installing solid rivets? Do you have a MIG or TIG welder that you are comfortable using on aluminum? Do you have a metal break (bender) at your disposal?

With the right tools, you should be able to do some nice stuff.

 

[flatheadsteve]

How big are the restricted lakes? A 36v bow mounted trolling motor would move that boat around 5mph all day. On the total opposite spectrum are they restricted to 25hp total or is 25hp the biggest outboard allowed ? I'm thinking dual 25hp hell maybe triples...keeps you under the weight and hp capacity of manufacturers specs.

 

[PunkR0ckz]

Sorry, I'm late to the party, and I haven't read all of the replies. I'll go back and read this evening.

Don't be upset if you get a little resistance to your ideas. Thinking men debate all the time, and the result is often a thoroughly thought-out end product.

Stay cool, and don't feel threatened or offended. Listen to everyone. There is a huge amount of experience and knowledge here, so chew on suggestions before accepting or discarding. Once you decide on a course of action, the folks here will respect it and will try to help you reach your goals in the smartest way possible.

Like you, I recently got a 16' boat for cheap. It was a "fish and ski" type, and I didn't like the layout of the boat. I put it up here for discussion, and I got a lot of suggestions. Some I liked, some I didn't. But folks helped me think it out carefully before making any final decisions.

What I ended up doing was make the entire front into a single platform, and I also put a small platform in the back with a small splash well. I am very happy with the end result. Here is a picture of it during the "test and see" process:
View attachment 118235

It took a bit of work and material to reinforce the transom area properly, but well worth the effort. That little platform gave me rigidity, a place to cast from, comfortable seating, and it made it much easier to get in and out of the boat with the ladder that isn't in the picture. This was important, since we swim and tube in the summer.

Here are a few more pictures. Since then, I've refined things, and I still have more to do in time:
View attachment 118236

View attachment 118237 View attachment 118238

But enough about my boat, on to your boat...

I had a Starcraft last year with the same rear area as yours. As you state, it takes up a LOT of real estate. And, as stated by others, it is a structural part of the boat, so it will take some careful planning to re-engineer it to be both strong and safe, but it can be done.

Are you comfortable with installing solid rivets? Do you have a MIG or TIG welder that you are comfortable using on aluminum? Do you have a metal break (bender) at your disposal?

With the right tools, you should be able to do some nice stuff.

Nice rig!

I studied Mechanical Engineer classes in school, I've been designing machines for the last 13 years now.

I've learnt how to make sure everything goes well together, is structurally sound and is prepared carefully for everything to go as planned.
I'm not afraid of riveting hollow core rivets or bucking solid rivets, I have never welded in my life though, but I am willing to learn, and in case I am not able to weld properly, I know a guy that repairs all Princecrafts boats (which are also aluminum) and where I used to work, the guy can weld aluminum pretty well and we used to make once in a blue moon waterproof or leak free boxes.

As far as a metal break, I don't have one, but I can make a pretty simple one out of iron angles and hinges and whatnot, aluminum is pretty pliable and that'd be enough for my needs, I'd just need to plan accordingly with what I can and can't do, rivet 2 things together and/or weld if necessary.

 

[PunkR0ckz]

As a FYI for anyone that replied;

I will not be taking apart the transom/splash well right away, I'll be doing the front up to the splash well slowly but surely and make it my own over time, as this is the most important area of the boat, obviously.

When I do work on the transom/splash well, I will keep all original parts, in case I don't like what I do, I could always throw back the original parts and try to figure out something new the next year.

I know this wasn't part of the original question but, how would you go about filling the screw/rivet holes in the gunwhales and other areas like the splashwell, etc? Brazing, sanding, bondo, paint? Tape under, epoxy, sand, paint? As I'll be starting with a blank canvas, I'd like to get rid of the most amount of unnecessary holes as well... I know it'll take some times, but my OCD would drive me nuts if I don't.

 

[flatheadsteve]

Weld up all the holes and grind smooth. They do make some epoxies that work but sounds like you have access to a welder and possibly a lot of old screw and bolt holes.

 

[Billy H]

I've seen in plenty of FB groups people selling similar hulls to what we have here for 10-15% of the price that is asked around here. For example, a Tracker v16 in the US seems to sell for 1200-1500$ with an engine, while around here they were selling for 5500$ without one hehe

You need to keep in mind those trackers selling for 1200-1500 in the USA are boats that need LOTS of work and the motors are toast. At least in my area. There are none in that price range within 800 miles of my house.

 

[MrGiggles]

My initial thoughts are that hanging 525lbs off of that transom and then cutting a chunk out of it is a recipe for a quick trip to the bottom of the lake.

I would think the thing to do would be to ditch the V4 (they are good motors but very thirsty, heavy, dinosaurs) and find a more modern 60-70hp 2 stroke triple. This will cut almost 200lbs off of the transom. Mount it in the center conventionally, and your kicker to either side.

My reasoning there is that you are not going to get much for speed/performance out of the kicker no matter what, there is no advantage to mounting it in the center, and doing so would risk it not handling well with the primary outboard (which as you've stated, when you need it, you need it.)

As for your transom door, I think it is a neat concept, but I don't see it working well on that boat. If you were able to make it work, that area would likely be under water all the time, with the weight on that transom you are likely to only have ~10" of freeboard. I have only ever seen gunwhale doors on large boats where the floor/deck is above the waterline.

 

[LDUBS]

Sorry, I'm not quite sure to understand which "live well" you're refering to? There is no live wells in my Starcraft. Are you refering to Stabicraft's setup? If so, I wanted to do something kind of similar with mine, as I mentioned early on in the discussion, but instead of being a live well, it would be a big storage compartment for a cooler on wheel, anchor and life jackets, so technically, it would be as stout as theirs (minus the hull thickness, but I would replace the plywood with 1.5 x 1.5 aluminum tubing anyway, as it is supposed to be 2 sheets of 3/4 plywood)

Funnily enough, while driving my uncle to the car garage, I thought of the same thing. I was like "Hum, I could possibly cut enough of the splash well and reshape it and then make a step up there instead of the door, it wouldn't be as fancy, but it would still do the same thing", and then, on the back of the transom, I could make a structure similar to a floating pod, which would protect the transducer from tree branches and whatnot (a 5 sided box with the underside empty to be able to put the transducer in there).

Sorry. I had another senior moment. I meant to say splash well. I was talking about a jump seat to the side of the splash well.

 

[LDUBS]

Yeah, well, I only go on rivers and lakes, I'm far from the sea... so nothing should even come close to entering the boat from the transom side. I've been in much smaller utility boats (12 and 14ft aluminum boats) with 15" transoms and nothing would even come close to entering it. Plus, most boat here don't have a splash well. The "equivalent" boat to my Starcraft Offshore is the "Princecraft SP165 or SP175" and they have a much lower splash well. It is about the same height as the transom, but it goes about as "deep" as the Starcraft (to allow for the head of the motor), whereas the Starcraft goes up to the gunwhales. If by shortening the splashwell it makes it "unseaworthy", then the SP165/SP175 from Princecraft are unseaworthy from factory as well hehe.

Anyway, I'll tinker with a pen and paper with ideas I have now with all the discussions we've had and we'll see what I come up with. I can't wait. I'm loving it, it is much more civil on here than FB groups lol.

Not the loss of your boat I was referring to. It was a guy potentially suing you for everything you own due to a bodily injury accident. But admittedly I'm not familiar with Canadian policy language.

 

[LDUBS]

How big are the restricted lakes? A 36v bow mounted trolling motor would move that boat around 5mph all day. On the total opposite spectrum are they restricted to 25hp total or is 25hp the biggest outboard allowed ? I'm thinking dual 25hp hell maybe triples...keeps you under the weight and hp capacity of manufacturers specs.

Two 25's. That is an interesting idea. Somewhat appealing based on the intended usage.

Ignoring drag, weight differences, etc are two 25's the same as a 50 HP?