New 4-Stroke or old 2-Stroke

[Cullix]

Hello everyone, I am in a dilemma. I want to purchase a new 40hp Tohatsu for my 2003 16ft Starcraft SC160. The boat seems to be in good condition. The problem is, a new Tohatsu is 210lbs plus a battery whereas an old 2-stroke is only 160lbs and is a pull start with no battery and manual trim. The 4-stroke is $10k CAD and the 2-stroke is $2k CAD (5x cheaper!). The 2-strokes im looking at are a 1993 Evinrude 40hp or a 1994 Mariner 40hp, both around 160lbs. I am worried about the extra weight in the boat since I plan to load it with gear sometimes to go camping, hunting and of course fishing. I also wouldn't mind saving 8k to spend on other things like maybe a better fish finder or something. I need your opinions!

The outboard you see in the pic did not come with the boat. The trailer is also being swapped out for a more heavy duty boat trailer.

 

[FuzzyGrub]

Welcome to Tin Boats!

If you do your own maintenance and repair, and check the old 2-strokes out sufficiently, should be OK. Parts should be available for both. A compression test and checking for water in lower unit oil, among other things, are needed.

If not, then have whoever you plan to use as a mechanic, have them evaluate the two motors.

The new motor should not need any major work for quite a few years, if you keep up with maintenance.

On the times you heavily load it, you might want to change to a lower pitch prop, for any of your options.

Manual start was ok when I was young, they all are electric start now. Moving weight forward will help if you are too much stearn heavy.

 

[Cullix]

Welcome to Tin Boats!

If you do your own maintenance and repair, and check the old 2-strokes out sufficiently, should be OK. Parts should be available for both. A compression test and checking for water in lower unit oil, among other things, are needed.

If not, then have whoever you plan to use as a mechanic, have them evaluate the two motors.

The new motor should not need any major work for quite a few years, if you keep up with maintenance.

On the times you heavily load it, you might want to change to a lower pitch prop, for any of your options.

Manual start was ok when I was young, they all are electric start now. Moving weight forward will help if you are too much stearn heavy.

Appreciate the response, very well informed. I'm only 34 so I think the manual start isn't that bad. I will bring a compression tester and they both agreed to let me test them.

Thank you

 

[Crazyboat]

I would grab the older 2S, have it gone over top to bottom, spend money on any issues and run like the wind. Assuming you are still in shape to pull start that engine. Any carb or spark issues can mean a lot of pulling! Ask me how I know...

If it were just boating I'd say grad the 4S for reliability but you want to load that boat up with gear, so weight matters.

 

[airshot]

If the two S motors are in excellent condition, I would go that route. Easy to work on and maintain and faster than a four S motor. No matter what motor you hang on the back, you will need to move weight around to get balanced for best performance. Neighbor has an early 50 hp four stroke motor, runs great but lots of extra maintenence and less performance than my 40 to two stroke motor on same kind of boat.

 

[Cullix]

If the two S motors are in excellent condition, I would go that route. Easy to work on and maintain and faster than a four S motor. No matter what motor you hang on the back, you will need to move weight around to get balanced for best performance. Neighbor has an early 50 hp four stroke motor, runs great but lots of extra maintenence and less performance than my 40 to two stroke motor on same kind of boat.

Interesting, Im going to do compression tests on the motors before I pick one. I've always heard that the 4-strokes aren't as fast which is disappointing to hear.

 

[airshot]

Interesting, Im going to do compression tests on the motors before I pick one. I've always heard that the 4-strokes aren't as fast which is disappointing to hear.

Acceleration is the big difference, but in a boat the faster rpm gain of the two stroke pushes it ahead. Don't get me wrong, the new 4 strokes are nice, quiet, easier on fuel but heavier. These new engines can get expensive when repairs are needed. Have a friend that works as a Merc factory technition, when these newer engines have a repair issue, they just bolt on a new engine to the lower unit as labor costs for repair far exceed the replacement cost. I don't expect to see a lot of these 4 strokes still running after 40-50 years like we do the old two strokes. I have a 1992 Merc 40hp two stroke that looks like new and runs like new and easy on fuel for far less money than 9-10K new four stroke. Gotta save an awful lot of fuel to make that up !

 

[OldSailor85]

1989 Johnson GT150

Still turned a new prop at rated rpm at 30+ years old. All parts still available if you look hard.

Old two-strokes in good shape are hard to beat. They just use a lot of fuel, and oily exhaust.

 

[Ray Clark]

@Cullix: Welcome to the forum!

My perspective on 2S versus 4S: I have a 20HP 4S Merc on my 14' tinnie. I bought the outboard new in 2021. It replaced an 30 year old rope-start 30HP Johnson. The Johnson had carb issues. I looked for a kit, parts, and even a donor motor to convert mine to electric start, but no joy. I got tired of having a boat but not being able to splash it, so I bought the new outboard. Love it. Quiet, no stink, no gas-oil mixing, and my shoulders appreciate the electric start. There was a time when a growling engine and the smell of the exhaust was all part of the experience. Let's just say that as I've aged (I'm 66), my enjoyment factors have changed.

I don't think the added weight of the 4S is a primary factor for your boat. Careful loading and weight distribution will be the key.

Some things also to consider in 4S versus 2S: Conservation authorities are increasingly restricting 2S operation on some bodies of water. Is that a factor in the areas you want to operate? In my area (Iowa), there haven't been a lot of restrictions on 2S motors specifically, but some lakes are electric-only.

Reliability...one thing to note: I make annual trips to two fishing resorts every year; one is in Minnesota, and the other is in NW Ontario. I don't drag my boat as I'm part of a group of guys, and it's cheaper to just rent the resort's boats than it is to tow my boat to the resorts. Both of those resorts use 4S motors on all of their boats. The boats are reliable and while we don't abuse those motors, we do expect a lot from them. The resort in NW Ontario uses 40HP Yamahas, and none of those motors are new. To be sure, they have suffered some failures, but the resort operator has told me that his biggest issues with reliability are customers who beat the **** out of the lower units with some collateral damage into the power heads.

Just some thoughts. Again, welcome to the forum!

 

[Lynn]

I have a 16 foot Klamath center console with a 35 HP Johnson on it.
I asked my local Boat Dr about a larger engine and going to a 4 stroke as I live in California and they hate everything 2 stroke out here.
Lots of used 2 strokes for sale here at reasonable prices.
His response was fast stick with the 2 stroke. I am also going bigger as my boat is rated for 65 HP max.
2 people is nothing but adding a 3rd person is very noticeable ,

 

[thill]

A 40 HP Evinrude is a very tough, reliable motor. My 16 footer was rated for 40, but I found a nice Johnson 50, which is the exact same motor as the 40, just with different tuning, so I went with it:



I am extremely happy with that upgrade. I'd been running a 35 HP Evinrude, which ran like a top, was utterly reliable, and would do 27 MPH. With the new motor, the boat cruised comfortably at 30 MPH with the engine barely even working. I never found the top speed, because once you got much over 35 the boat would start skipping and pounding, so I would always back off.

One thing a little surprising was that the bigger motor used LESS fuel than the smaller one, probably because it never had to work hard. I had a 12 gallon tank, and I struggled to use up all the gas before it got too old.

Two strokes have a lot of power for their HP. Here is a video of my nephew learning to wakeboard behind my 16' tin boat. Notice that the engine is not working hard at all, even pulling a wakeboarder:



And they are a little louder, but not that much louder. Here is a video where you can hear the way the engine sounds when cruising:



I sold that boat last year, and am still a little sad about it. It was very similar to yours, simple and very useful. A great boat to have.

Congrats, and I hope it serves you well, regardless of what motor you end up with.

 

[Pappy]

The Evinrude/Johnson 40hp of that vintage is a bulletproof motor. The tuning on that engine made it a great idling and low end torque engine. Plenty of power and good on fuel as well. I would say you cannot go wrong with that engine for your needs. Sounds like a no brainer money wise as well.

 

[outboard]

I've owned both 2 and 4 stroke motors but have always gone back to the older 2 strokes.

The newer four strokes are quieter and a bit easier on fuel but they're more expensive to maintain.
A two stroke motor does not need oil changes or oil filters.
The cost of which sort of offsets any money they save in fuel.
Then there's the weight issue and the fact that a four stroke makes less power taking off.

 

[rocknroj]

Hello everyone, I am in a dilemma. I want to purchase a new 40hp Tohatsu for my 2003 16ft Starcraft SC160. The boat seems to be in good condition. The problem is, a new Tohatsu is 210lbs plus a battery whereas an old 2-stroke is only 160lbs and is a pull start with no battery and manual trim. The 4-stroke is $10k CAD and the 2-stroke is $2k CAD (5x cheaper!). The 2-strokes im looking at are a 1993 Evinrude 40hp or a 1994 Mariner 40hp, both around 160lbs. I am worried about the extra weight in the boat since I plan to load it with gear sometimes to go camping, hunting and of course fishing. I also wouldn't mind saving 8k to spend on other things like maybe a better fish finder or something. I need your opinions!

The outboard you see in the pic did not come with the boat. The trailer is also being swapped out for a more heavy duty boat trailer.

 

[turbotodd]

I can't ever remember anyone ever saying "I wish I would have put an old used 2 stroke on instead of this new 4 stroke".

The weight difference can be offset by moving weight around and/or just removing weight. Good example, had a customer on the fence with the same decision. I had his boat in front of me (548 war eagle) and it had a 12 gallon tank in the back. I asked him how he uses the boat which was running to a fishing spot, furthest distance 7 miles one way. Then I suggested why not pull that 12 gallon tank out, sell it, and use the cash for a 3 gallon tank which will cover your needs without issue?

I have that same boat, and 3 gallons of gas lasts a LONG time in mine. And it's less than 1/2 the weight of a 6 gal tank. So there's a significant weight savings on it's own. You don't need to carry 50 gallons of gas to run 3 miles. It goes old before you use it up.

I bought a boat last year with a 2 stroke yamaha and I'm already looking at repowering with a newer 4 stroke....

 

[airshot]

Based on a discussion with the service manager of a large local marina....very few issues with the newer 4 strokes as long as maintenance is followed. On those that have developed issues, it becomes a major expense unless under warranty. With labor at 120 per hour, a bad cam shaft or burnt piston becomes a cost prohibitive repair. Cheaper to replace with a short or long block, which are not cheap ! Most mfgrs have extended warranties for 6 plus years, some even longer to make these look more affordable. In my area, two strokes are still quite popular and many shops are willing to work on them for common repairs, no one wants to do an overhaul anymore. As the cost of these continue to go higher, mabey folks will begin to realize how critical care and maintenence has become when they see replacement costs. My 1992 two stroke still looks and runs like new, I would see no reason at all to trade for a four stroke unless it failed one day, but even then, the cost of new will be a tough call.

 

[MrGiggles]

I can't ever remember anyone ever saying "I wish I would have put an old used 2 stroke on instead of this new 4 stroke".

The weight difference can be offset by moving weight around and/or just removing weight. Good example, had a customer on the fence with the same decision. I had his boat in front of me (548 war eagle) and it had a 12 gallon tank in the back. I asked him how he uses the boat which was running to a fishing spot, furthest distance 7 miles one way. Then I suggested why not pull that 12 gallon tank out, sell it, and use the cash for a 3 gallon tank which will cover your needs without issue?

I have that same boat, and 3 gallons of gas lasts a LONG time in mine. And it's less than 1/2 the weight of a 6 gal tank. So there's a significant weight savings on it's own. You don't need to carry 50 gallons of gas to run 3 miles. It goes old before you use it up.

I bought a boat last year with a 2 stroke yamaha and I'm already looking at repowering with a newer 4 stroke....

3 gallons in any size boat would make me very nervous. That's maybe an hour or two of running hard with any outboard of reasonable size (15+hp). Doesn't take long at all to suck it down if you have some sort of incident, weather blowing in that slows your pace to a crawl, helping another boater in an emergency situation, taking on an additional passenger/cargo, a boat that's waterlogged or swamped, etc.

I've been down the four stroke road with a 90hp EFI Merc. The EFI was great, it was very smooth, powerful, and stable at idle. Noise on plane was negotiable, you're going to have so much wind noise at speed that the outboard is already drowned out. But the weight, it was bad. That motor was 360ish pounds. My boat is rated for 90hp, but it was too much. Even the brace I had made for the transom began to crack. No amount of weight distribution is going to make up for essentially carrying around another person on the transom. The 50hp Evinrude I replaced it with is just shy of 200lbs.

 

[airshot]

Gotta remember that extra hundred pounds of a four stroke is not just sitting on the transom, it hangs over the back, with the fulcrum point at the transom. So in reality an extra hundred lbs actually adds about 125 lbs. The biggest scare for those that I have talked to is....what if, I have an engine problem ? Can I afford to get it fixed after the warranty passes ?