Pondering trolling motor battery selection

[cyclops2]

Any proof the human caused the fire ?

LIPOS are NOT SAFE !! Short the terminals ? Over charge them ? Charge at wrong current ? Fire alarm time. LIPOS are BANNED above a certain size in airliners & shipping trucks.
LIFEPO4 is allowed to be shipped world wide.

I have driven nails into both common sizes of LIFEPO4. I have also overcharged LIFEPO4 to death.
Never heat,fire or smoke. Go on the model airplane forums. LOADS of burned down houses from LIPOS.

 

[thill]

Despite the fire, I'm still considering buying a lithium.
But I'm definitely buying a specific charger for it, and I have a spot outside on concrete where I will charge it.

 

[LDUBS]

View attachment 113126

In February, my neighbor was charging his new Lithium batteries for the initial charge for a solar system that he had just installed. He went outside to do something in his shed, and saw a shadow out of the corner of his eye. It was a plume of black smoke coming from his house. I happened to be driving by right then and I jumped out to help, but there was nothing we could do. Within 5 minutes his house was engulfed in flames. The above picture is real. It was crazy. Total loss. At least he and his dog got out alive.

NEVER charge batteries of any kind in the house is what the fire Marshal said, not lithium and not even flooded lead, because of hydrogen gas that they produce that can explode. The lithium batteries he had were SUPPOSED to be safe. I am now curious, and will ask him if they were LifeP04 or some other kind of lithium battery.

Either way, charge them outside.

I'm glad they were safe but this is still incredibly sad. I hate seeing folks have to go through stuff like this.

 

[airshot]

Just read a few articles on lipo and lifepo4 batteries...while similiar the lifepo4 seems to be an improved model (without going thru a long chemical explanation) of a lipo battery. Lifepo4 makes less voltage per cell, so more cells are required to reach the 12.8 volts for 12 volt systems. That makes the battery heavier and larger than a lipo, but the advanced lifepo4 does have a much larger charge/ discharge cycle, over twice as many cycles as a lipo. The lifepo4 is also a safer charging system, not as dangerous as a lipo, lifepo4 are much more forgiving than a lipo. The lifepo4 are considerably more expensive, larger, heavier than a lipo, but much lighter, with a longer discharge cycle than any lead acid. Lipo's are great, less expensive and pack more of an electrical punch than any other battery but great care must be taken to be sure NO mistakes are made in their care and handling!!! Lifepo4 are newer improved lipo type battery, but larger and heavier, but much safer and more forgiving than a lipo !! Much longer discharge cycle but not the hard quick punch that a lipo gives, but far greater than any lead acid battery. In either case, a proper charger is a must, I would not rely on your motor to charge either, no matter what they tell you !! Either is much lighter than any lead acid battery out there, but both are much more expensive than a lead acid battery. Consider carefully how your battery will be used and how it will be maintained and how deep your pockets are !!!

 

[thill]

I'm using a pair of 9AH batteries to run Livescope, but I'm really considering a 50AH LIFEPO4 for $149. Is this a good price? Anyone know of any better deals? It seems like it's not much more than a standard deep cycle, especially when you consider the cycle life, but this will be my first Lithium.

 

[airshot]

I'm using a pair of 9AH batteries to run Livescope, but I'm really considering a 50AH LIFEPO4 for $149. Is this a good price? Anyone know of any better deals? It seems like it's not much more than a standard deep cycle, especially when you consider the cycle life, but this will be my first Lithium.

Many, many differences !!!! Read instructions carefully !!! The Lifepo4 lithium are the safest ones on the market right now, use the correct charger and dont make any really dumb mistakes, you will be good !! These have about 4-5x as many cycles availiable compared to an agm battery ! These have been designed to be user friendly and more forgiving for that "oops" moment. Been looking at them myself, my two group 31 trolling batteries are three years old, still work good but I know they will be giving up before long. The group 31's are almost 100 lbs each, a good 100 amp lifepo4 are under 50 lbs!! Good ones have 10 plus year warranties!!

 

[cyclops2]

Only problem with the new .....LIFEPO4 batteries ???? The companies are making rejects and not making quality units. Russian Roulette if you get a good one. DO NOT buy ones with a built in electronic charger. They have higher failure rates.
Buy just a battery with NO NO BMS Covered by he black top of the battery.

 

[CRS]

I have used Dakota lithium batteries for 5 years and never had any problem, they are light weight (about 1/2 AGM or lead acid) this helps with small boats. Remember AGM and lead acid should never be drawn down past 50%, lithium ion can be drawn down 80% or more depending on who you check with without any damage and the voltage remains the same preventing low voltage damage. would suggest multiple batteries. Regardless of the type things go wrong, batteries fail unexpectedly. With 2 or more you will still get back to the dock. Cost of lithium is expensive layout but the double life 11 years and the ability to farther faster out weigh the cost in my humble opinion.

 

[TheGrandestPoobah]

Forgive the thread highjack: but has anyone tried Roypow batteries?

I didn't get any search hits here but have heard some positive things elsewhere

Thinking about that 30 amp hour 12v (or even two of them) for my 12 foot jon. Input welcome on how that might impact trolling motor selection or a preferred alternative. 8.8 lbs a piece at that price is tempting, especially with a 5 year warranty.

 

[CRS]

ROYPOW batteries country of origin is China, the largest producer of the individual cells is China. China is the problem, they have very poor quality control if any at all. USA companies assemble the batteries as we know them from the cells. It's the pre assembly inspection that is important, 1 faulty cell can be the cause of problems large and small. I would check with the companies, do they inspect 100% of the cells before assembly? What is their guarantee and return policy. Make sure no matter whom you buy from their rules and costs to you in the event of a bad battery. Be very sure to use only the correct charger, and do not attempt to save a few dollars and skip the built in electronics that shut things off before problem becomes an emergency.
I lost my house, boat and everything else last year to a fire. The LIPO batteries were suspected and investigated by 2 different fire inspectors. Neither, although 1 attempted before even seeing the evidence to blame the batteries. After an exhausting and nerve wrecking time for me the cause of the fire was determined to be unknown. The batteries were removed from the suspect list and the top suspect was a computer surge protector. The moral of this bit of info is LIPO batteries are blamed by many, when the real culprit is something else. The batteries did add to the intensity of the fire at their location but the overall results would have been the same according to the fire inspector.

 

[TheGrandestPoobah]

I know it's an N=1, but I saw this guy taking apart and pretty thoroughly testing some roypow and powerurus batteries



tested for overcharge protection, low charging temp protection, and found a really low variance between cells, and accurate discharge claims.
He certainly goes over the construction with a fine tooth comb and things looked good. Hard to find really good info on these deep cycle lifepo's, kind of a niche market still.

 

[Lost But Happy]

It’ll be 2 years March 2023 and my Amped battery has been working great! Been using it with my 65 lb thrust trolling motors and have had plenty of power left at the end of the day. Really appreciate the light weight.

It's past the 2 year mark, how's the battery holding up?? Any charging problems? Is it easy to charge?

Thank you!!

 

[airshot]

23 lb 100-Ah -- wow! That is 44 lbs lighter than my 105 Ah AGM battery. I'm jealous.

Thanks for the thorough comparison of options. I don't know what drives the current pricing (no pun intended) but hope it migrates down by the time I need a new battery.

Wow...you guys have light weight agm batteries, my two group 31 agm batteries weigh 95 lbs each!!

 

[airshot]

Any proof the human caused the fire ?

LIPOS are NOT SAFE !! Short the terminals ? Over charge them ? Charge at wrong current ? Fire alarm time. LIPOS are BANNED above a certain size in airliners & shipping trucks.
LIFEPO4 is allowed to be shipped world wide.

I have driven nails into both common sizes of LIFEPO4. I have also overcharged LIFEPO4 to death.
Never heat,fire or smoke. Go on the model airplane forums. LOADS of burned down houses from LIPOS.

There, you just stated...short terminals, wrong charger, wrong setting, wrong current....all human errors!! The battery doesnt hook itself up to the charger!! Been using lipo batteries for 20 years, not one issue....but I am extremely carefull and do not allow anyone else to use or tinker with my batteries!! Lifepo4 batteries are a different system all together and much safer than regular Lipo batteries.

 

[airshot]

ROYPOW batteries country of origin is China, the largest producer of the individual cells is China. China is the problem, they have very poor quality control if any at all. USA companies assemble the batteries as we know them from the cells. It's the pre assembly inspection that is important, 1 faulty cell can be the cause of problems large and small. I would check with the companies, do they inspect 100% of the cells before assembly? What is their guarantee and return policy. Make sure no matter whom you buy from their rules and costs to you in the event of a bad battery. Be very sure to use only the correct charger, and do not attempt to save a few dollars and skip the built in electronics that shut things off before problem becomes an emergency.
I lost my house, boat and everything else last year to a fire. The LIPO batteries were suspected and investigated by 2 different fire inspectors. Neither, although 1 attempted before even seeing the evidence to blame the batteries. After an exhausting and nerve wrecking time for me the cause of the fire was determined to be unknown. The batteries were removed from the suspect list and the top suspect was a computer surge protector. The moral of this bit of info is LIPO batteries are blamed by many, when the real culprit is something else. The batteries did add to the intensity of the fire at their location but the overall results would have been the same according to the fire inspector.

Kinda like the I phones that everyone is running out to buy. Made and assembled in China....no american QC is allowed until it reaches our shores! For every 5 phones that are produced only one passes the tests and is accepted, this is why they are so expensive!! Quality lipo boat batteries are the same, companies order a bunch of them then test them when they get here. Good companies offer good warranties, to know how good a bettery is...check the warranty fine print !! The longer the "full replacement" part is, the better the battery ! Forget prorated warranties, they mean very little and are a gimmick to get your attention. In this day and age you need to do your research!!!

 

[LDUBS]

Wow...you guys have light weight agm batteries, my two group 31 agm batteries weigh 95 lbs each!!

Aw, my math was a little off. My Walmart 105AH AGM comes in at 65# I think. Still 30# under yours.

I was not even aware of the difference between LIPO vs LifePO4 until you guys brought it up. Not currently in the market for a new battery, so I guess I'm safe for now.

 

[airshot]

Aw, my math was a little off. My Walmart 105AH AGM comes in at 65# I think. Still 30# under yours.

I was not even aware of the difference between LIPO vs LifePO4 until you guys brought it up. Not currently in the market for a new battery, so I guess I'm safe for now.

When my current agm batteries give up, I will probably shop for lifepo4 battery ( batteries) to replace them. They are comming down in price and up in quality as the demand increases, but....I will shop carefully !!

 

[Zum]

Group 31 agm batteries are now the same price as cheap lifepo4 100aH batteries...atleast up here, both alittle over $400
I'll be looking at lifepo4 when I need a new TM battery, mostly for the weight saving, I take my batteries out the boat to charge.

 

[airshot]

Yes, I am akso seeing agm batteries going up in price, as the lifepo4 are becomming more popular, their prices seem to be comming down !! Hope that continues until my current agm's die off.

 

[1970GregorVHull]

I have a 1970 Gregor 12ft vhull with the 62lb Newport vessel. Running a 100ah lifepo. No problems so far. Hasn't left me stranded yet. I also have a noco on board charger so I just have to plug the boat into an extension cord to charge. With 2 people it gets me up to about 4mph or so.