Preventing rattling

[fishjunky]

What would I need to do to prep for welding?

I'm assuming wire wheel the paint and any corrosion. Anything else?

 

[CedarRiverScooter]

Use a new stainless steel wire brush, that has not been used on steel. Otherwise you drive impurities into the aluminum. If it was me, i would use pop rivets or screws to jig all the pcs in, then take it to the welder.

 

[Skiffing]

Correct - Brand new stainless steel brush - only use on aluminum.

If tubing is anodized remove to bright aluminum at weld sites - all faces. Ribs - clean to bright aluminum

Aluminum oxide sand paper or sanding wheel

Acid wash

Acetone cleaning

In that order

Prefit all pieces.

Welder will have to acid wash to remove oxidation that will form immediately after you finish your prep - but he has to do that to any aluminum he welds including brand new.

 

[fishjunky]

I stopped into a local welding shop. They offer tig welding but recommended finding someone that can weld aluminum with a mig welder.

Does this sound right?

 

[Johnny]

I'm sure that in Fish's mind, all the pieces come together.
we are not there. we can not imagine his vision.
I see it now, 14' flat bottom Jon with a 20hp.
So I am just lurking to see how it all pans out LOL.

I can answer one question - - -
the square metal tubing is called Balusters or Pickets for porches, decks and such.

available in the Big Box Stores. Another item of similar usefulness is the
1.5" square tubing for pool enclosure screens. good for transoms.

now, as for the puzzle of the ladders, stringers, rivets, welding, yada yada yada
I just can't wrap my head around the big picture yet to offer any kind of direction.

Jus my Dos Centavos

oh, just for education - you can Google up MIG and TIG welding and see what it entails.





.

 

[Johnny]

okay okay okay - - - Fish guy - - -

put aside ALL the above information . . . cut all your pieces to fit the way you
envision the final project. Don't rivet, screw, bolt, or weld anything. Just dry fit all your
pieces. Put it all together, cut the wood for your floor and just lay it on your frame
then ..... put in a few self taping screws to hold it all in place.
Go put your boat in the water and run it around for awhile and take notes.
Then come back to your shop.
remove the floor. Make whatever adjustments you deem necessary.
THEN - if you need more help, everyone will be glad to pitch in their dos centavos.

In the meantime, everyone is making this simple project WAY harder and more
complex than it has to be.
it is a BOAT !!! not the Space Shuttle !!!
good luck - have fun.

 

[Skiffing]

I stopped into a local welding shop. They offer tig welding but recommended finding someone that can weld aluminum with a mig welder.

Does this sound right?

Nope. Tig is preferred.

 

[fishjunky]

Hmmm he said the tig would take a lot longer and would risk "bleed thru" because the hull is so thin. I guess tig is much hotter than mig?

Maybe he was just trying to find an excuse to not do the job because he didn't want to mess with it?

 

[Skiffing]

They are both adjustable power and wire size. Tig has better penetration but is used in 1/8" aluminum all the time. Mig will also work.

Youd be welding to a rub - not the hull.

 

[fishjunky]

It would be on the hull in a couple of places though.

 

[richg99]

Only time I tried to get a welder to work on my boat, I could tell he REALLY didn't want to be bothered. Try another welder.

 

[fishjunky]

Still looking for a welder... Was researching tig vs mig on the web and ran across info on DIY aluminum brazing. Does anyone have any experience on muggy weld or HTS-2000 products?

https://youtu.be/RCrixbXz4rc
Starter kit (enough for my project) would be $65.

 

[Johnny]

I am easily frustrated when I try something new and I don't
get satisfactory results right away.
I bought a pack of those aluminum brazing rods 40 years ago
and still have them.
15 years ago, I watched my neighbor repair a small hole in his Jon Boat
only to watch the hull ripple and warp where the heat was not consistent.
$65 is a bit steep, IMO, try to find a few around locally to practice with.
The guys at the Trade Shows make it look so easy. Welding Coke cans together, etc.

They are on E-Bay much much cheaper. Less than $15 for a kit.

The technique is to have the substrate (the material to be welded) hotter than
the brazing rod. The base material must melt the brazing rod, not the torch.
there is a good margin between the melting temperature between the two.
The secret of the technique is to have the base metal melt the brazing rod.
Don't melt the brazing rod with the torch.


jus my Dos Centavos

 

[onthewater102]

I tried the HTS brazing rods...terrible results working with thin materials. The thin skin of the boat rolls and warps at the temperatures you need to get the brazing to work well. I had a bad experience with it trying to fix leaks on my 12' Sea Nymph where it really distorted the hell out of the floor and blew threw in places where I gave it too much heat.

Recently I tried it on 1/16" angle (thinner than the boat skin trying to get better at it) and I was able to make a rack for the front of my boat but I had the same problem where the 6063 alloy aluminum was melting at barely more temperature than the brazing rod took. I was eventually able to get it to work but there were a lot of failed pieces - you've only got one shot to get it right with the hull of your boat.

I did for s**ts & giggles try them on scraps of the 1"x1" 1/8"thickness angle I used for my deck structure and it worked well on that.

I'm picking up some 100% argon shield gas so I can try my MIG welder on aluminum, though I've heard mixed reviews about the quality of the weld MIG welding puts down on aluminum (not as good a penetration or as smooth a final weld as TIG).

This seems to be the best source of info I've found thus far on the subject:
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/aluminium-welding.htm


TIG welding is the way to go - and worth the drive to find a shop that will TIG weld it for you.

 

[fishjunky]

Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep looking for a pro or at least a semi pro welder.

 

[Skiffing]

^^ A semi pro will work. Mig WILL work and is used all the time for this kind of work. So don't be put off by that. TIG is preferred - is all for a number of reasons - main reason is probably the weld is deeper and can be faired to the parent material and become invisible. With Mig you NEED to leave the bead - cause that's where the strength is.

Prep is key. If you do that well you can ge this done on the cheap. Maybe even save your ladder for another project :shock: :shock:

 

[fishjunky]

Well I'm 0-for-3 on welding shops. No one wants to touch this project because the aluminum is so thin.

I'm regretting starting this project at this point....

I've already got the ladder notched to fit the 1" square stock at most of the cross supports (one I did a piece of angle due to the cross piece falling right over a ladder rung).

I wonder if I could replace the square tubing with 1" square white oak (rot resistant and on hand). 9 pieces shouldn't add that much weight in the scheme of the project. If I used the oak would it matter if the ends aren't connected to the hull? I could use small screws to secure the alum decking to the oak strips and then rivets where it falls over the ladder. I was planning on filling up all the void with blue board insulation except for a central channel.

 

[Skiffing]

Give Modliin's welding inn Farmville a call.

https://www.facebook.com/ModlinsWelding

 

[fishjunky]

Farmville is a long drive for me.

 

[Skiffing]

They are marine welders.

I didn't say "go there" :?

I suggested you call them.

It is likely they know every aluminum welder from there to Arkansas.

Plus - if they wouldn't be interested in doing to job for you - you know you have a problem.