VHF Question

[AnglerRoy]

Hey Everyone,

So I’ve got a question. Every Aug my dad and uncles head to the far north of Ontario for a week of fishing. There’s nothing around for a hundred miles.

Our “fleet” usually consists of about 5 boats and each boat has a two-way radio to stay in contact with each other. Usually these are some kind of Cobra hand-held radio....that never seem to work out unless you can see the boat and it’s not more than 1km away.

I’m thinking of adding a Raymarine VHF radio and antenna to my boat, and I’m wondering if my radio would be able to communicate with these “handhelds”? Do they use some band outside of a regular VHF “onboard” radio? I don’t believe they are working on encrypted channels.

The lake is 32km2, so decent sized. I’m wondering if, perhaps I’d be able to A) communicate and B) always at least hear them even if they can’t pick me up? They’re all retired and there’s a sense of looking after them since I’m still in my prime (and able).

Any advice/input you can all contribute?

Thank you!

 

[Whaler]

VHF will not communicate with the hand held. Actually, depending on your antenna it won’t be much better. Most are line of sight.
Stick with what you have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Superlucky]

Sir

You did not state what type of hand-held your group is using. If it is the FRS/GMRS radios that everyone uses for camping, etc, then a Fixed VHF won't work.
If your group is using hand-held VHF radios, then, YES, you can communicate with them.

I disagree a little with Whaler and do believe that the fixed VHF with a fixed mast antenna will provide you with a little more communication ability. You will pick up distant users better because the antenna is higher than your handheld.

(If everyone is using those FRS radios, I would suggest having them all get VHF radios. Being out in the middle of nowhere without the ability to communicate is a little scary.)

Just my 2 cents

Bill

 

[AnglerRoy]

Sorry gang, I don’t know exactly what type of radios I’m referring to.....other than a four pack at Costco for $99. What I do know is there is no GPS capability.

I’m just asking if any hand-held radio on say, channel x, will talk to my VHF on the same channel (x)

 

[DaleH]

No, different frequencies.

As far as VHF, everything is about the height of BOTH antennas above the water, so the higher the antenna the better the reception, significantly more than a handheld. Never mind that a VHF transmits on 25 watts at full power and those GMRS and other handhelds are about 5 watts.

 

[AnglerRoy]

Thanks Dale and everyone else. Got it, different frequencies altogether. So I guess I should ask, would airplanes flying nearby (puddle jumpers) pick up my VHF?

To address an earlier comment, we have a sat phone at the cabin, but sometimes that is quite a ways away depending on where one is on the lake.

 

[Pappy]

The best advice on here so far has been to have everyone ditch the little family radios and go with at least a VHF handheld. Safety first over cost. Boats should be equipped with taller antennas. You can install an 8' or better that will easily fold down onto the gunnel.
We used to use the little family GMRS style while hunting and it was an exercise in futility at best.

 

[turbotodd]

Why wouldn't a CB radio work for that application? Won't communicate with the rest of the fleet's current VHF but if you could get them all on board with even cheap CB's with decent antennae the range would be considerably more than just line of sight. The antenna is everything, however. A junk antenna won't pick up or tx very well, but a cheap radio with a decent antenna will outperform a great radio with a junk antenna. BTDT. Learned a LOT about CB when I was younger. Reminds me, I think I still have one or two stashed in a pile of boxes in storage. May have to dig 'em out and see if that stuff still works.

 

[maintenanceguy]

Wattage
Most handheld VHF radios are limited to 4 or 5 watts transmitting power. Full size VHF radios transmit at 25 watts. Hugh difference in transmission distance.

Antenna Height
Even if you have the power, radio transmissions are line of sight. Getting the antennas higher lets the antenna's "see" each other over a much longer distance.

Antenna Gain
A "standard" antenna has a gain of 3dB. these antennas transmit power in a sphere. Equal power in all directions. A 6dB antenna has a higher "gain". It transmits power in a flatter disc. Since less power goes up and down, more goes out to the horizon giving you more range. A 9dB antenna is a very high gain antenna and transmits in an even flatter disc. More power directed at the horizon, so longer transmission distance. The problem is that a boat is often rocking. Sometimes this flat disc is pointing down at the water or up into the sky.

 

[JLG]

Hi,

My two cents.

The uhf and vhf handhelds come equipped with all the antenna and all the range you need. Some of them are even waterproof. Look for the ipx7 standard.

These do require an fcc license, which citizen's band radios do not.

CB handhelds may be your best bet, assuming you'd rather not get a ham license.

73s
JLG

 

[AnglerRoy]

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess following my plan for a VHF is and always was, still on the table. As for the others, well...that’ll be up to them.

There’s one other boat with a VHF, and he happens to be a retired S&R guy with basic EMS training, and we’re usually not near each other, but between the two of us, we can relay info over a decent distance coming from the camping radios if needed.

Thanks for the antenna info, think I’ll go with the 6db gain, sounds like the best option of the three.

 

[DaleH]

I like the Shakespeare Galaxy 5225-XT for distance (and strength). Don’t be taken in by the brand that calls themselves “digital antennas”, as they are no better than Shakespeares and in fact, in every test I ever did (once tested ~30 VHF units at my boat club) all of that brand actually tested the worst.

Saw this in Cabelas, 2-way radios with an advertised 38-mike range, weather conditions permitting of course.

 

[AnglerRoy]

Thanks Dale. I was planning on a regular Shakespeare 4’ antenna that folds down...none of that digital stuff. Unfortunately, at 4’, looks like there’s only the 3dB option (at my price point). Any thoughts?

As far as the non-vhf radios, seems like they all say they’ve got huge range, personally I’ve never seen them work that great over a mile or two. I don’t know why that is though.

What I’m wondering now though, is 2 4’ antennas an option or is it useless? 8’ is a bit too long (folded) for my boat based on my mounting options.

 

[AnglerRoy]

Hi,

My two cents.

The uhf and vhf handhelds come equipped with all the antenna and all the range you need. Some of them are even waterproof. Look for the ipx7 standard.

These do require an fcc license, which citizen's band radios do not.

CB handhelds may be your best bet, assuming you'd rather not get a ham license.

73s
JLG

JLG, I’ll be getting the license, for sure. And I also need to get a MMSI from the (Canadian) government for DSC. To not do it, seems idiotic to me...

 

[DaleH]

NOTE! On boats ... you do NOT need a license to use marine VHF radios, any type of EPIRB, any type of radar, GPS or LORAN receivers, depth finders or CB radio.

Ships that use MF/HF single side-band radio, satellite communications, or telegraphy must continue to be licensed by the FCC, as of Mar 20, 2017. Airplanes too, using VHF radios must be licensed. But am not aware of Canadian laws.

I myself have never used a short VHF antenna, so I would contact Jim Maier at the BOE Marine Electronics and ask him - he would also likely be your best price. Tell him Dale from ‘Classic Parker’ sent you and you might just get an extra 10% off.

 

[AnglerRoy]

Interesting, I swear I read you need a license to “legally” transmit. They have free classes all over Ontario for them and they’re about 20 hours or so for a course.

Thanks for the tip on the resource. I’ll do that, perhaps any discount could offset the exchange rate. ;-)

Thanks Dale.

 

[DaleH]

Oh, duh ... I was quoting US Laws ... not Canadian .. sorry!

 

[AnglerRoy]

When I put “legally” in quotes...doesn’t mean very many folks do it! But, and I could be completely wrong (it’s been awhile since I looked all this over) that to get the MMSI you were required to provide a VHF licence certificate... in Canada.

 

[AnglerRoy]

When I put “legally” in quotes...doesn’t mean very many folks do it! But, and I could be completely wrong (it’s been awhile since I looked all this over) that to get the MMSI you were required to provide a VHF licence certificate... in Canada.

I checked this morning and was incorrect. In Canada, you can apply/obtain an MMSI as a non-licensed VHF vessel.

 

[jethro]

NOTE! On boats ... you do NOT need a license to use marine VHF radios, any type of EPIRB, any type of radar, GPS or LORAN receivers, depth finders or CB radio.

In regards to VHF radios, I believe this only applies to coastal waters, inland waters I think you still need a FCC License. That's what I have been told, so take it for what it's worth.

Also worth noting, the guys I ice fish with all use GMRS radios quite a bit and they are using these new 15 watt GMRS radios that are not handheld, they are like base stations and powered with external batteries and uses external antennas. They apparently get a huge amount of added range using them on their hardside bobhouses.