What's better Power T&T or NO T&T & a CMC unit?

[richg99]

I am in discussions to add a small flats boat to my diminishing fleet.

One boat had Power Tilt and Trim on the motor.

The other boat had a motor without Power T&T, but added a CMC (or other brand) Tilt and trim unit. The dealer said that...

"in the location/area that the boat gets used, they hit a lot of rocks. It is felt by many that a Power T&T motor loses its "kick-up" option.

A non-Power T&T motor can be run with the free "kick up" system in place. The CMC unit allows for T&T; and adds setback, which allows for raising the engine, hence, even shallower operation."

My first reaction wasn't so positive towards the CMC solution...but..Upon reflection...I think the dealer had a very good point.

Any comments appreciated, though please leave out suggestions for a jet. It would only add to the confusion. I am aware that a jet may be another viable option and don't wish to discuss them in this thread.

thanks, richg99

 

[DaleH]

I see the reasoning ... and can understand it.

Now I had the big CMC unit for my 90hp and I loved it and it worked flawlessly for the 8-seasons Inhad that boat.

But please check the searches, as someone here works for a dealer that installed a bunch of them and it sounds like they've cheapened some of the components on the PT-30 (35?) model, includkmg kne brace that keeps breaking off.

They had good comments you should at least be aware of.

 

[richg99]

Yeah, Thanks Dale. I also saw that post and will recover it. That post is why I put "or other T&T unit" in the query.
regards, Rich

 

[nccatfisher]

I have run those 35 T&T units and been on several more. Running one now. If you hit something hard enough to break the piece they are referring to I can promise you the same crowd that continuously complain that you should NEVER run a stainless prop on a small outboard would pull their hair out. They are plenty tough. But they have made corrections in that area.

That being said if there is a weak point it is the two relays for the up/down. If you don't have them mounted in a fairly dry area they can cause issues. They don't have to be in a waterproof environment but they better darn sure be in a shielded area from water. I buy plastic boxes and mount them in them and have no problems whatsoever.

 

[richg99]

Thanks, NC.... that is VERY good advice. (mounting the relays in waterproof boxes). I would not have thought of it.

rich

 

[Stumpalump]

I had both on almost identified boats. Given a choice the aftermarket CMC is better. You can set height without fooling with bolts that go thru the hull transom except when you install it. Due to the pivot point, as it lifts it also jacks the motor up. The set back lets it push the boat onto plane with less adjustment. The best feature of setback is going slow. The leverage away from the hull makes it steer better. I really like it a lot better than factory trim. Best of both worlds would be factory trim with a powered Jack-plate. Stacking units would give too much setback.
Given a choice and not having a kick up feature that's still what I would do. How often do you hit stuff and are you above idle speed when you do? When I drag then I trim up. You have been boating long enough not to blindly plow into shallow water. But then again your waters may be full of obstacles and your motor needs to kick up. If so you answered your question but yes the CMC is better than factory trim despite the kick up feature.

 

[DaleH]

Thanks, NC.... that is VERY good advice. (mounting the relays in waterproof boxes). I would not have thought of it.

I boat in saltwaters where even the salt air can be corrosive to items, so I buy those small 6" square or 6x8" rectangular 'Tupperwear"-type boxes that have the full O-Ring seal and clamping latches. I put my fuse or circuit breakers or connection buss in them.

A proven protective spray is BoeShield T9 ... just spray static parts only, don't spray anything dynamic that has to move.

 

[LDUBS]

Thanks, NC.... that is VERY good advice. (mounting the relays in waterproof boxes). I would not have thought of it.

I boat in saltwaters where even the salt air can be corrosive to items, so I buy those small 6" square or 6x8" rectangular 'Tupperwear"-type boxes that have the full O-Ring seal and clamping latches. I put my fuse or circuit breakers or connection buss in them.

A proven protective spray is BoeShield T9 ... just spray static parts only, don't spray anything dynamic that has to move.

I use BoeShield T9 to protect my tablesaw top. Kind of pricey, but a great product. This stuff was invented by or for Boeing to protect aircraft parts.

 

[Stumpalump]

I mounted my relays in a small Plano box with the o-ring gasket. Those plastic boxes are biodegradable in the sun. Mine cracked up in a year and was literally powder and dust in two. Paint it or use it out of the sun.
Oh and I forgot that I found your flats boat on craigslist. This thing has been advertised befor with great pics and info. It looked good! It's a shallow water boat with super low hours. The pics on the last add showed as new. Google the hull and ask for more pics. Bet you could steal it for 10. I've never seen it but could face time you so you could see it live. You would have the coolest flats boat, ski boat, fishing boat and grand kid boat in TX. Made for shallow rockey rivers so the hull is thick. Not overly thick either. It's 22 so it will eat up some ruff water even with the flatish hull. https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/boa/6147584658.html
Looks like a dealer has it. https://www.scmboats.com/boat.php?id=443

 

[richg99]

Lots of helpful suggestions here.

As far as hitting something..think Oyster Reefs. If you are lucky, they will only scrape up the bottom of your boat. They do not move. Yes, I've hit a zillion if them. They do for gradually re-position themselves, unless there is a hurricane. Then the appear in new places. Doesn't happen often, but tides and currents happen daily.

The boat in Phoenix won't make it in 4 or 5 inches of water, where the redfish hang out, but thanks anyhow. I'm lóoking at Max hp of 25.

Keep the suggestions coming. Rich

 

[turbotodd]

The CMC PT35's lower clevis bracket is a little better on the newest versions, but still will break. It takes a hit, but it will still break. Keep a spare. It's not likely to be replaced while on the water, the screws that hold it on are in the front side of the plate, so you have to pull the CMC off to get to the screws, as best I remember. I haven't sold a PT35 in a long time, generally try to get folks to put a PT130 on instead, which is a LOT beefier. Never seen a PT130 fail, other than a worn out actuator. BTW, CMC won't warranty an actuator if you cut the wires, so if you're doing anything the wiring, be sure to leave the plug intact and cut the harness end, not the actuator end. Read further below....

The relays, the newest ones, are better than the old ones but they're still garbage. The old ones were so bad that in this area, duck hunters would get less than an hour of use out of the boat before a relay would die. Sad. Keep in mind the conditions, usually cold, rainy, worst possible weather for an angler, but the ducks and the hunters don't mind. An ATV winch contactor works 10x better and lasts nearly forever unless it's mounted below the water line on the outside of the boat, then it'll eventually quit due to corrosion internally, obviously. The link is the contactor that I usually install. Typically about $40 for the part. The wiring is easy. Yellow and blue terminals go to your CMC actuator. Red terminal is battery +, black is batt -. Then you have two small wires. They go to your up/down switch. If you get it wired backwards, up goes down and down goes up, just switch the wires on the yellow and blue studs, or reverse the polarity on your switch. It's really easy. Those CMC relays are garbage, and if/when they do fail, it's always the worst possible time. You just tilted the motor up to run shallow, and it won't tilt back down. Or you're stuck in the mud bottom and the motor won't tilt up. Or worse yet, you get to the lake with high hopes, and it won't tilt at all. Makes for less than good day. Do the contactor and that problem goes away, permanently as far as I know. I've never heard of a contactor failing unless it was left submerged.

https://www.kfiproducts.com/replacement-winch-contactor.html

 

[richg99]

Turbotod or anyone else with knowledge of
Bob's Machine Shop T&T and/or Panther T&T

From my recent readings, and paying attention to the reported failure rate of the CMC PT35 units....I am leaning towards the Bob's Machine Shop device.

The one hitch that I read about and haven't had a chance to call them on.....is that the unit (seemingly) will only accommodate clamp-on motors and doesn't align with the BIA specs for bolt-on engines.

Any help or input appreciated. thanks richg99

 

[Stumpalump]

Anything Bob's make is as good as it gets. Probably the best. Will this work for you on a motor that has factory trim?
https://houston.craigslist.org/bpo/6108660413.html

 

[skipper123]

After going thru three of the CMCs in five years I decided buying my motors with factory PTT is a must. I replaced relays on all three. Keeping them completely dry is a must or they will short out in a few months. On a side note I have yet to break a factory PTT in 30 years of boating. Adjusting my Tohatsu outboard up or down is as easy as removing two of the four transom bolts and lifting the motor up one bolt hole and slide it back in.

 

[richg99]

I will now be putting off buying ANYTHING for a couple of months.

Doc said I need a new knee. Operation scheduled for 7/13 already.

D#$&@,. There goes my Summer.
Rich

 

[benjineer]

Excellent thread. I have the same questions. I have a 50hp, so the PT-35 is not an option. I see Panther has a 55hp version, but it's not much less in price than the PT-130

 

[Stumpalump]

PT-130 used are $200-$400 all over. Use Search Tempest and find a seller that will ship. Corpus Chrysti craigslist has one for example. Search "CMC". I bought an older rattle can black one for $160 after a 40 minute drive and a haggle. I greased the pivot points and slapped it on. Ahhh trim with setback and higher height!

 

[benjineer]

PT-130 used are $200-$400 all over. Use Search Tempest and find a seller that will ship. Corpus Chrysti craigslist has one for example. Search "CMC". I bought an older rattle can black one for $160 after a 40 minute drive and a haggle. I greased the pivot points and slapped it on. Ahhh trim with setback and higher height!

Sweet! How fast does that 48hp push your boat? Did the setback make a noticeable improvement?u

 

[Stumpalump]

PT-130 used are $200-$400 all over. Use Search Tempest and find a seller that will ship. Corpus Chrysti craigslist has one for example. Search "CMC". I bought an older rattle can black one for $160 after a 40 minute drive and a haggle. I greased the pivot points and slapped it on. Ahhh trim with setback and higher height!

Sweet! How fast does that 48hp push your boat? Did the setback make a noticeable improvement?

I can milk 34 out it. It ran 28 when I bought it. It let me go from a 15 to 17 pitch prop. This is on a 550 lbs 18' hull. It's rated for an 80. I mention that because it adds weight. The unit weighs 30-40 lbs and your moving the whole motor back. If your on a small boat and are already heavy in the stern then don't do it. The setback lets you run the motor higher and in clean water. It also pushes the boat without having to push down to lift the boat. It's a straighter prop wash. The leverage on the rear makes it turn on a dime at slow speeds. I can't think of a single thing about it that I don't like better but I don't think my old 16' with about the same motor would have liked the extra weight. Most boats on here are smaller so I point that out. On a smaller boat a home brew bracket out of 1/4" aluminum angel that raised the motor an inch and back 2 or 3" might be a worthwhile little project.

 

[Stumpalump]

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