Dialing - in new boat/motor

[fl.graderman]

Hello all,
I am a new member here, but have been reading and absorbing knowledge on this, (and a couple other), sites since last summer when I decided to sell my kayaks and buy a boat for fishing mosquito lagoon.

For those not from here, mosquito lagoon is a large, shallow, saltwater estuary on the east coast of Florida. It has some of the best redfish and seatrout fishing in the country. It's not uncommon to see huge schools of redfish tailing in 18" of water on the seagrass covered flats...

To fish this area, I bought a new 2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX. It's an all-welded, aluminum hull weighing in at about 540 lbs. It has an 18", (approx.), transom and Tracker Marine recommended a 25hp, 20" shaft outboard.

I then purchased a 1996 Evinrude 25hp, 3 cylinder, 2 stroke to mount on it. The motor weighs 156 lbs. Mounted directly to the transom, the ventilation plate hung 3 inches below the keel. To offset this somewhat, I put a 1" aluminum spacer on top of the transom and clamped it down. Taking it to the lake to test it out, revealed 28 mph, 5570-5600 rpms, (fsm says wot operating range is 5200-5800 rpms), and a whole bunch of spray coming off the back of the boat.

Because I was putting this thing together to fish shallow water, I was not happy with the idea that my lower unit was too deep in the water and all the spray while on plane proved it.

Next I purchased a manual mini jack plate made by Bob's Machine Shop, sealed the holes previously drilled through the transom and mounted everything up. Now at the lowest setting, the ventilation plate is 1/2" below the keel and at its highest setting, it's 1 1/2" above the keel. I currently have it set dead even.

Today I took it out and at wot, I dropped to 26 mph, rpms at 5690-5730. It rides nice, seems to get on plane good, but not only did I lose 2 mph, if I come off plane too quick, I come close to swamping the motor.

I am trying to get everything dialed in so I can get on the flats while we still have some cool weather. Am I missing something? I was under the impression that the jack plate, while lifting the motor, would also increase speed. And I'm not sure why my motor gets swamped now coming off plane when it's 3 inches higher now than when mounted directly on the transom.

If anyone has some insight, I am ready to be schooled...

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[Fishfreek]

Welcome graderman \/ ,

I am also still setting my boat up to fish the lagoon. Seems every time I have a chance tooget out it has been raining then today perfect day and to much family visting to get out. Where do you launch from? I'll be out tomorrow running a few test laps still workjng on getting motor height correct.

 

[Stumpalump]

When you installed the jack plate you also moved the motor back and up changing the center of gravity.
Hard to believe that few inches matters but it's weight on a lever. You may need to move weight foward in the boat like the battery, tools and cooler to compensate. Have you fooled with or changed the trim pin location? Moving the pin up gives more bow rise. Down brings it down. You need to adjust height and trim along with weight a whole lot to dial it in. Go for top speed first then back things off until it handles other conditions like not cavitating in turns or extreamly high bow when taking off. Swamping the rear is caused by weight and trim. You will get used to not throttling back so fast when you slow down to help if it's still a problem. Generally your fastest top speed is with a lot of positive or trim up and as much weight as you can back. If you can stand that for normal driving then leave it if not adjust, adjust ,adjust till you find just the right compromise.

 

[fl.graderman]

Welcome graderman \/ ,

I am also still setting my boat up to fish the lagoon. Seems every time I have a chance tooget out it has been raining then today perfect day and to much family visting to get out. Where do you launch from? I'll be out tomorrow running a few test laps still workjng on getting motor height correct.

Usually from eddy creek or biolab. I typically fish the southern end of the lagoon. I was planning on going out tomorrow as well but life happened. Once I get all the bugs worked out, I'll be out there at least one day a week...

Stumpalump, I did fiddle with the trim pin. I started with the lowest hole and ran it, shut it off, raised it one hole, etc until the third hole when it began porpoising. I put it back in the second and called that good.

This evening, I cranked the jack plate as high as it would go. My ventilation plate is now almost 2 inches above the keel. I'm going to try in the morning what you said about moving weight forward and have a buddy go with me to sit on the bow.

On a side note, I was reading about flotation pods. Cabelas sells them and the ones that would fit my hull are only about $270. It seems to me that might offset moving the CG back...what are your opinions on these?

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Bea...=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03069793&rid=20


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[Stumpalump]

Pods are supposed to be bad or dangerous in ruff conditions and since you are in Florida you may see some swells. Following sea danger. Personally I think they are a bandaid for overloaded or poorly set up boats. You may gain a bit in skinny water but the trade off of lost speed and the way the boat performs in waves would not be worth it too me. It's time for a larger hull when you need pods. Your not there yet. Keep tweeting. Your on the right track. I'm waiting for sombody to build the only pods I'd consider. Built off of a Bennett hydrolic trim tab. Makes so much sense I can't be the first to think that up......

 

[fl.graderman]

Ok, just came back from tweeking and testing and these are my findings:

Jack plate all the way up, (ventilation plate almost 2" above the keel)
Tilt pin in 2nd hole, and my 100lb daughter sitting on the front deck...no change in speed (26mph), no porpoise and no blowout. But it did alleviate the motor swamping when I throttle down.

Moving the pin up to the 3rd hole, speed increased to 28 mph, mild porpoising, and blows out in turns.

Rpms at wot never went below 5640 and never above 5750 in either scenario.

This leads me to believe that I need to lower the jackplate about 3/4", move the pin up to the third hole, and find a way to keep about 100 lbs in the front of the boat. This will keep me at optimum rpm at wot, minimize porpoising, stop swamping the motor, and top speed will be constant 28 mph.

That being said...I want to change out the 3 blade, aluminum prop for a stainless steel. My current prop is 10.3" x 12. The closest thing I've found is a solas new saturn stainless spec'd at 10.25" x 12. I know stainless is less flexible so I'm thinking that's why they downsized it 1/16" to make up for that...

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[fl.graderman]

BTW, I'm keeping the pod idea on the back burner. I'm not sure I would have a problem with waves or following seas just because I will rarely be in water more than 5' deep, but it does seem like it would be a counter measure to a previous counter measure...if that makes any sense...

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[AllOutdoors]

Pods are supposed to be bad or dangerous in ruff conditions and since you are in Florida you may see some swells. Following sea danger. Personally I think they are a bandaid for overloaded or poorly set up boats. You may gain a bit in skinny water but the trade off of lost speed and the way the boat performs in waves would not be worth it too me. It's time for a larger hull when you need pods. Your not there yet. Keep tweeting. Your on the right track. I'm waiting for sombody to build the only pods I'd consider. Built off of a Bennett hydrolic trim tab. Makes so much sense I can't be the first to think that up......

Interesting. I've never heard of pods being dangerous. I wander why they are standard on many production boats? They helped my boat turning and reduced draft. Increased planing time as well and made the boat more stable. Everyone that fished with me couldn't believe the boat was 17ft hull. They said it fished and rode like a longer boat. I was running a jet though. Maybe that was the difference? I know several bay/flats boats with prop tunnels run pods.

 

[Stumpalump]

Pods are supposed to be bad or dangerous in ruff conditions and since you are in Florida you may see some swells. Following sea danger. Personally I think they are a bandaid for overloaded or poorly set up boats. You may gain a bit in skinny water but the trade off of lost speed and the way the boat performs in waves would not be worth it too me. It's time for a larger hull when you need pods. Your not there yet. Keep tweeting. Your on the right track. I'm waiting for sombody to build the only pods I'd consider. Built off of a Bennett hydrolic trim tab. Makes so much sense I can't be the first to think that up......

Interesting. I've never heard of pods being dangerous. I wander why they are standard on many production boats? They helped my boat turning and reduced draft. Increased planing time as well and made the boat more stable. Everyone that fished with me couldn't believe the boat was 17ft hull. They said it fished and rode like a longer boat. I was running a jet though. Maybe that was the difference? I know several bay/flats boats with prop tunnels run pods.

They have their selling point in shallow calm water with a small boat and a heavy load. If your under powered you may like the increased planing time. Nobody has ever claimed they increase top speed but many note the loss. They not only raise the transom but seem to funnel water higher above the prop. That lets you run the engine higher on the transom. All good and most can live with a loss of 3 or 4 mph. Speaking from experiance, broaching a boat or controlling a boat in a follow sea is no joke. Most never experiance it but when you get on the edge it really catches you off guard and makes you say wow. It happens quite easy and fast. You go with a wave and the front starts digging in while the back gets light. You raised the engine and have pods that push you higher on the wave. The stern slides out sideways and you broach. For decades I just thought it was somthing to just keep you on your toes until a 26'er I was on broached on a lake. Wave overtook us from behind and sideways we went. Let me rephrase. The rear gets light (loss of steering) and abruptly turns or pivots 90 degrees on the face of the swell. Of course you also have wind pushing you. Now that you instantly got spun on the swell out of nowhere and you slam sideways into the trough. With pods already pushing a raised engine in the air you have no rudder. The front is digging in and trust me that boat will wip side ways so fast that you will not believe it. You can drive out of it if you have extra power and can usually not get yourself out of shape but this is the worst weather condition a mariner faces. Modifying a boat that will make this condition worse needs to be mentioned with the positive aspects of pods as a major trade off. I doubt the wave we broched on was 6' and we were in a 26' boat. What is that 4" wave in high wind going to do to a tinny? You will be fine but just be aware. Bone up on following seas because those are the ones that send people to the Davie Jones Locker.

 

[Fishfreek]

Graderman, before you you bought the jack plate did you try just lifting the motor straight up? Just curiouse what you went through before deciding on the jack plate.

 

[fl.graderman]

I raised it by placing 1" aluminum square tube between the motor and transom, but that was as high as I could go because my clamps were running out of meat to clamp to. Plus with a 1" lift, my ventilation plate was still over 2" below the keel.

On a side note, I kept looking at your console until I decided I have to have one. That will push more weight forward as I'll be standing basically in the middle of the boat. I emailed the guys who built yours and hopefully they respond soon...

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

Did you send them a picture of mine? I was able to raise my motor just over 1 3/4" today before I started running out of transom. I will be testing it after work tomorrow. I hope they get back to you. They make a VERY good living off the fisherman in the area.

 

[fl.graderman]

Hopefully that'll get you where you need to be without having to raise it any further. If you have to go any higher, I would advise looking for a way to elevate it with no setback. Especially since you have a heavier 4 stroke. In retrospect, If I would have known the effect of putting my 160 lb motor 4" further aft, I would have done the same. The jack plate was only necessary because tracker grizzly 1448's have odd sized transoms and they recommended a long shaft. I could have a) elevated the motor 3" with no setback or b) bought a short shaft and set it back 4" with no changes in elevation. I believe on the 1648 and up, the transom is a full 20+ inches tall.

Also that email was sent two days ago and they still haven't responded. They don't know how childishly impatient I am. I wound up going with this one

from a company in Atlanta called Fish on Fabrications. Except for the paint, (I didn't want black so they're shipping it bare).

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

Fish on is a great company to deal with. I know how you are about the email thing. I was lucky and able to stop by and bug them in person. If the wind holds down today I will get out and test it and see what happens.

 

[screamensemen]

Welcome. Glad to have another East Coast Florida member. I was tackling the same issue you are doing now "motor placement". Mine is still sitting a little too low for my liking and will be raising it soon. I went with a side console for my boat and when you have a weight to the side of you (your buddy or cooler or whatever) it rides straight and pops out the hole quick. I did the side console to give me more walk around room and to be able to transport my crab traps. I like the way your CC looks simple and clean. Boats looking good keep at it.

 

[fl.graderman]

Welcome. Glad to have another East Coast Florida member. I was tackling the same issue you are doing now "motor placement". Mine is still sitting a little too low for my liking and will be raising it soon. I went with a side console for my boat and when you have a weight to the side of you (your buddy or cooler or whatever) it rides straight and pops out the hole quick. I did the side console to give me more walk around room and to be able to transport my crab traps. I like the way your CC looks simple and clean. Boats looking good keep at it.

What size motor and type of hull are you running? What area are you crabbing? Indian river?

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[fl.graderman]

Welcome. Glad to have another East Coast Florida member. I was tackling the same issue you are doing now "motor placement". Mine is still sitting a little too low for my liking and will be raising it soon. I went with a side console for my boat and when you have a weight to the side of you (your buddy or cooler or whatever) it rides straight and pops out the hole quick. I did the side console to give me more walk around room and to be able to transport my crab traps. I like the way your CC looks simple and clean. Boats looking good keep at it.

What size motor and type of hull are you running? What area are you crabbing? Indian river?

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[fl.graderman]

Thanks to the 45° temperature and 25 mph wind gusts, my boat is again drydocked for the weekend. Hey you northern guys don't have to share the cold with us...feel free to keep it all to yourselves. Ha ha.
So I took advantage of some free time and built a pair of guide-ons for my trailer.

I bought this trailer for $300 on craigslist and have modified it to "fit" my boat. I do intend to replace it with a new aluminum one from Ameritrail at some point, but until then, I don't want to spend any more on it than I have to.
It was originally for a 17' vee hull of some sort and I have already bought new hub kits, coupler and safety chains, light kit, spare tire and carrier, winch tower and winch, a jack, and a couple rollers. I cut 3 feet off the tongue, lowered and narrowed up the bunks, and mounted new rollers down the center.
I drew the line after all that and refused to pay $100 more for a pre built guide-on kit and went to home depot...
They are made from 2" schedule 40 pvc that I slid over a 12" long 1 1/2" galvanized nipple. The pvc is plenty stiff enough to guide the hull onto the bunks, the only reason for the galvanized is so I could torque down the mounting bolts without crushing the pvc.

I still need to change the impeller in my motor, but it's too cold out there. I think I'll just spend the rest of the day watching wicked tuna!

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

I agree. .... this weather can't go away fast enough. It was 52° when I got up this morning and the wind. Ugh!!!


I see a new boat cover in your future once you put that new console in place . I got the motor raised but can't test in this weather.

 

[fl.graderman]

I see a new boat cover in your future once you put that new console in place . I got the motor raised but can't test in this weather.

That occurred to me right after I ordered the console. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that...
Speaking of the console...the guys in Titusville finally responded to my email. They must have realized that there might be a market for these small tiller consoles. They quoted me $475. I'm glad I went with Fish on Fab at $330 including shipping. Can't wait for it to get here.

How far did you wind up raising it? I actually have to lower mine 1". Then I can trim it up one pin hole. I figure with me standing centered midships at the console, I'll be running at optimum speed, rpms, and weight distribution. Then I'm swapping my aluminum prop for same pitch stainless...

I just hope mounting a new Minn Kota rip tide SP and battery under the bow don't throw everything back out of whack...


2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper