Dialing - in new boat/motor

[boatman2]

I have a 10" solas SS prop. I had a 9" SS thinking it would be better with another person, it wouldn't plane with just me, so I tried a 9" alm. 4 blade same thing wouldn't plane. Then I tried 11" SS prop got to 24mph with just me, but yery long time to get up.it only got 5700rpm. With the 10" ss it would 6200 rpm and gets on plane quick. the red line on the motor is 6300 rpm. I do have a lot of weight in it. A 24 volt minn kota 80 lb trolling motor with two 27 DC batteries up front and another battery it the rear for the main motor. I'm thinking smart tabs and doing away with the hydrofoil. I'm satisfied with just me in the boat, but I can not figure out how to do it with another person. I also thought a 4 blade Power tech prop may be good but I'm not sure.

 

[fl.graderman]

Boatman,
I'm by no means an authority on prop selection ...but I have a few thoughts based on what I've learned during my own experience with this boat.
First off, you're right about it being heavy. Dry weight on just the hull is 548 lbs. And since it's only a 1448, I decided to set it up just for me alone. With another person performance may suffer slightly, but more often than not I'll be alone and that's when I'll want it to perform the best.
I don't know yet how the tabs will affect rpms. I do know they'll help you get on plane faster, allow a slight increase in speed, and give you a more stable ride...
One thing I'm a little concerned about is that I'm right at the upper edge of my max rpms with the 12p prop I'm currently running. If the tabs raise my rpms by as little as 200, then I'll need to go to a 13p. The last thing I want to do right now is buy ANOTHER prop. I guess we'll see what happens...
Im surprised that you only have 5 hp less than me but you're prop has 2" less pitch. I always heard the 4 strokes had much more torque than the 2 strokes.
Oh well...I learn more every time I log in and read through these pages...

Oh yeah...I also figured out that I need to reconfigure the way my boat sits on the trailer before I can install the tabs. As it sits now, they're going to hit my bunk boards and I can't imagine that being good for them or my transom...

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[boatman2]

fl. graderman
I'm a retired Boat dealer (lol) To me setting up these small boats is very different then the bigger boats I've dealt with. I don't think you will have a problem with your RPMs, If you do just add a little cup to the prop. As for your trailer the bunks will not cause a problem with your transom, but they will be in the way with your tabs and a transducer. Bunks should be even with the transom, DO NOT make them shorter then the transom that could put a hook in the bottom of your boat. I think my problem is I need a prop with a bigger diameter,
but that could be a Witch Hunt.

 

[fl.graderman]

I finally bought my new fishfinder and decided to install it today. Don't want to go fishing today anyway because it's raining all day...
The new unit is a Lowrance Hook 5 DSI. It's a sonar/gps combo.
Anyways, I studied lots of posts about mounting the transducer at least a foot away from the gear case, but I don't have that luxury. When I finally finish getting my new trailer set up, I'll be sitting properly on the bunks and installing my trim tabs. I measured to find the trim tab location and then tried to space the x-ducer evenly distance - wise between the tab and the gearcase.
I'm hoping it'll still read properly at speed but kind of expecting it not to.
Here's the x-ducer mounted on the new stern saver. I really didn't want to drill any more holes in the transom than necessary...

I made a simple bracket for the head unit that attaches to the versa trac with 1/4"-20 carriage bolts. The base will be super easy to read when I'm sitting at the tiller, but will also swivel so I can see it while sitting on the front deck trolling...

And the coolest part of it is that I was given a battery that was to be used for one of those power chairs. It is a 12v 27ah agm battery. Its approx 5"x7"x8" and weighs only like 16 lbs. I also found a small battery box from Attwood that fits it perfectly. Now my electronics are powered independently from the trolling motor and I don't have the weight of another group 27 battery at the stern.

When the rain moves out. I'll be ready to try it out!

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Catch Release Repeat]

Very interested to hear how your battery holds a charge and how often to pull it out and juice it up. I've been contemplating the same thing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fl.graderman]

Very interested to hear how your battery holds a charge and how often to pull it out and juice it up. I've been contemplating the same thing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Will probably be putting it on the tender every Friday night. According to the units manual it uses 1.1 amps power. If I'm doing the math properly, the battery should be good to go for about 24 hours. Since I typically only fish for about 10 to 12 hours between sat and/or sun, I should have no problem going all weekend. The battery is fully charged now. I'll check the charge tomorrow afternoon and post it up.
One thing to note...this battery was given to me, however, I priced them on their website and they run pretty close to $100. About the same as what I paid for my group 27 on the trolling motor...saving weight and space...pesos not so much...

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[fl.graderman]

I finally got the right, (or at least as close to the right as I could find), trailer for my boat.

This places the bunk boards where they needed to be for me to install the Nauticus Smart tabs.

Not a terribly difficult process, however, it took about 20 minutes for my blood pressure to come down after drilling 16 holes in the transom of my $3k hull. It felt like my heart was beating in my neck the whole time that drill was running...haha...
I used a lot of 5200 to seal up all those screw holes so I won't be able to test it out until next weekend, but I'll post my results. Worse case scenario I guess I could always scrape them off and still have pods welded on over the holes...

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

Have you had the boat out since installing the trim tabs? Just wondering what you think.

 

[fl.graderman]

Have you had the boat out since installing the trim tabs? Just wondering what you think.

I'll be running it this coming weekend. There are 5 different tension settings so I'm going to tilt the motor up another pin position and play with the settings to find a happy medium of speed vs porpoise. Im also hoping to get rid of some of that squat in the stern that drives my skeg into the bottom in shallow water when trying to get up on plane. As ridiculous as they look on the back of my transom, I hope to get some benefit from them.
Anyways...I'll post up my opinions on saturday evening. Wish me luck.

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

I've used them on several boats in the past mostly to fix squat issues. You should be fine. It's pretty cool how something so simple can work so well.

 

[fl.graderman]

I didn't get out to play with the tabs until this morning. Wind was gusting to near 30 mph yesterday and it's supposed to pick back up this afternoon as well.

Anyway...I tilted the motor up another hole to the 4th pin position and left the smart tabs set on position 3, (the middle of the tension adjustment range). When I hold a straight edge against the keel of the boat, it is perfectly parallel with the anti-ventilation plate on the motor. The anti-ventilation plate is a touch above the keel, but they are both running on the same plane, if that makes sense...

With this setting:
THE PROS:
1) It planes MUCH quicker and at a lower speed.
2) No noticeable stern squat upon takeoff. This along with #1 is what I wanted to accomplish for fishing the saltwater flats.
3) The bow rides lower with no porpoising.
4) I feel like I can turn sharper and at a higher speed without feeling like I'm about to spinout.
5) I can slow down and cruise as slow as 15 mph and still be on plane.
6) And finally I gained a small amount of top speed and could probably gain a little more if I changed the tension setting to the number 2 position as long as it doesn't start porpoising. I wasn't really looking for more speed though.

THE CONS:
My rpms at WOT increased. The WOT range on my Evinrude 25 is 5500-5800 and now with the 12p prop it will run up to 5870.
This is a con because I just bought the new stainless 12p and am thinking I now need a 13p to keep from over speeding and damaging my powerhead...another $200!

Oh well. The pros far outweigh the cons. I am very happy with the way the boat performs with the tabs and have 0 regrets. For $130, the Smart Tabs offer a solid performance upgrade and were a great investment.


2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[HeavyHook]

Thats great you are seeing the results you were looking for! I have been keeping up with your thread since the beginning so keep us updated if you change the prop also. It always seems like there is another thing to spend more money on when it comes to a boat lol.

 

[fl.graderman]

Thats great you are seeing the results you were looking for! I have been keeping up with your thread since the beginning so keep us updated if you change the prop also. It always seems like there is another thing to spend more money on when it comes to a boat lol.

Thanks Heavy,
Prop change is coming...I just ordered a 13p Solas stainless prop. Hopefully be here Friday. I read for every 1" increase in pitch your rpms will decrease by 200. If that holds true in this case, my new WOT rpm should be between 56-5700. I don't know if 70 rpms over the limit is enough to damage the motor, but figured why risk it...I just hope the 13p doesn't kill my holeshot. We'll see this weekend...

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

Graderman, what kind of tach are you using?

 

[fl.graderman]

Graderman, what kind of tach are you using?

It's a tiny tach. It was ~$50 on amazon. Real simple to hookup.

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Fishfreek]

Cool, completely forgot I have a tiny tach somewhere in that mess I call a tool box.

 

[fl.graderman]

Well the 13p was delivered and installed yesterday.

It did what I needed it to do...it just did it a little too well. My rpms at WOT went from 5850 all the way down to 5490!
So much for the '200 rpm change for every 1" of pitch' rule.

My speed didn't increase at WOT, but I'm assuming it's because I lost over 350 rpms. It also seems to have had very little, (if any), effect on holeshot.

So my biggest question is this...

Both 12p and 13p stainless props give acceptable holeshot, top speed, and performance.
My engines wot rpm range is 5500-5800.
The 12p spins up to average 5850.
The 13p spins up to average 5490.

Since they don't seem to make a 12 1/2p, I guess I need to pick the lesser of two evils. Which one would that be? I've read it's just as hard on a powerhead to be under the rpm range as it is to be over...

Any suggestions? I do also have a brand new 12p 4 blade aluminum, but that's a last resort as I prefer a stainless prop.

2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[fl.graderman]

I think I may have an answer to my question.
The wife walks outside this afternoon and asks me when she gets to go on a boat ride...

Long story short...

Her 120 lbs of additional weight dropped my rpms another 100 to 5390 at wot. That's 110 below the minimum and unacceptable.
It's been posted in many places online that increasing your pitch 1" will lower your rpm's by 200...THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. In my case it was nearly twice that, and as such...12p is going back on in the morning.

Guess I'll either have to make sure I don't twist the throttle past 5800, or find a way to limit the throttle mechanically, or add about 100 lbs to the boat...

P.S. Feel free to contact me if anybody needs a 10 1/8" x 13p SS prop for Johnson/Evinrude 25...



2015 Tracker Grizzly 1448 MVX
1996 Evinrude 25hp 3 cylinder looper

 

[Pappy]

The RPMs per 1" or 2" of pitch is and always has been based on V6 propellers. More specifically engine manufactures V6 propellers, not aftermarket. You can throw that out the window for small engines and aftermarket prop manufacturers. "Now ya' tell me!"
If you have read what I wrote about the heritage of the Mirage engine then you know it was born and bred a European race engine.
Your worry about RPM is just that.....a worry. The engine will happily run up around the 7000 + range if it were not limited by the power pack. There should be a number followed by a letter on your pack....probably something like 61L or 62L. That represents the RPM at which the pack will kick in and limit the engine. (6100 or 6200) Anything under that and you are golden. Again if you have read some of my stuff on this engine you know I always like to use more oil than the normal consumer ratio printed in the Owner Manual. That manual is written just as much or more by Marketing department than the Engineering department. Additional oil will protect the engine much better during an overheat among lots of other benefits. The drool out the exhaust for a day or two can be limited by no prolonged idle period prior to shut down or run the fuel out. Mine does it as well.
Propellers. The 12 SS sounds like the better prop for your application. You may want send it off since you have a 13 as a spare. One of the best propeller guys in the US is MAZCO propellers in Gravoios Mo. They did all my drag racing props. Not cheap to do but worth it. On the other hand you may not want to hit bottom after sending one off to them....$$
Any decent prop shop can add cup and bring the cup around the leading edge a bit for you. The earlier post about modifications including rake were accurate....it all comes into play but you do not need to be educated in it. Just say what you want the prop to do better and what it is not doing well. This is not a one time process. You need to make and evaluate changes in height and angle with each modification and record results if you want to be serious about it.
You have changed your loads several times and load placements but still have a decent top speed so you are on the right track.

 

[Pappy]

The RPMs per 1" or 2" of pitch is and always has been based on V6 propellers. More specifically engine manufacturers V6 propellers, not aftermarket. They never "got the memo" so to speak. You can throw that out the window for small engines and aftermarket prop manufacturers.
I know....."Now ya' tell me!"
If you have read what I wrote about the heritage of the Mirage engine then you know it was born and bred a European race engine.
Your worry about RPM is just that.....a worry. The engine will happily run up around the 7000 + range if it were not limited by the consumer power pack. There should be a number followed by a letter on your pack....probably something like 61L or 62L. That represents the RPM at which the pack will kick in and limit the engine. (6100 or 6200) Anything under that and you are golden. Again if you have read some of my stuff on this engine you know I always like to use more oil than the normal consumer ratio printed in the Owner Manual. That manual is written just as much or more by Marketing department than the Engineering department. Additional oil will protect the engine much better during an overheat among lots of other benefits. The drool out the exhaust for a day or two can be limited by no prolonged idle period prior to shut down or run the fuel out. Mine does it as well.
Propellers. The 12 SS sounds like the better prop for your application. You may want send it off since you have a 13 as a spare. One of the best propeller guys in the US is MAZCO propellers in Gravoios Mo. They did all my drag racing props. Not cheap to do but worth it. On the other hand you may not want to hit bottom after sending one off to them....$$
Any decent prop shop can add cup and bring the cup around the leading edge a bit for you. The earlier post about modifications including rake were accurate....it all comes into play but you do not need to be educated in it. Just say what you want the prop to do better and what it is not doing well. This is not a one time process. You need to make and evaluate changes in height and angle with each modification and record results if you want to be serious about it.
You have changed your loads several times and load placements but still have a decent top speed so you are on the right track.