A newbie in need of advice... UPDATED! Got everything now!

[haute]

Hello Everyone!

After having absolutely no interest in fishing my entire life, my family and I went on a two week camping/fishing trip with friends who are avid fishermen, and we had a blast - so much so that my wife and I agreed we need to get some sort of tinny and get on the water with the kids regularly.

Here's the issue though - I know **nothing** about what to look for, or even what I should be buying.

I have read the buying guides in the forums, as well as on the main page to the site, but I am still at a loss as what to choose.

The people we went out with have a G3 1548MV jon boat with a 25hp Merc modified to 30hp with a custom floor, 50lb thrust electric, 4 rod holders. This is a wonderful setup, but it is both WELL beyond what I can afford, and also well beyond what I can physical handle by myself. My buddy is a massive man, standing 6'4" and 350(ish)lbs, so he lifts that motor off the boat and puts it into the back of his truck like you and I would move a lunch kit.

We are a family of 2+2, with the +2 being a 5yr and a 3yr old. My wife and I combine for around 275 lbs.

The trouble is we are getting very disparate advice from people. Friends who have been doing this for a long time tell us we only need a little 12' tinny and an electric. Friends with small kids insist we need a gas motor too, b/c getting stranded with little ones is not an option if bad weather comes out of nowhere (I would agree with this). Some say a 6hp is enough whereas some say 15hp should be more of what I should look at. Most all say 2 stroke b/c they are lighter and it doesnt matter about keeping them upright. If I talk to any marine dealerships, I need a 14', 48" jon or 67" beam V-hull, with a minimum 20hp in order to be comfortable for the next decade as the kids grow up. I would love to agree, but I just cant afford that.

Most 12's seem to be rated for only 3 people, and would have to move up to a 14' to get a 4 person rating.

A jon boat would seem like the ideal platform, but I can really only afford 36" bottom boats, as moving to a 42 or 48" not only increases the price a lot, but also the weight. There are lots of wide beam 14's which would fit the bill, but they are significantly more money. Also, even in my friends MV jon, the slightest chop was *seriously* uncomfortable to ride in - it felt like someone was literally kicking my *** - so a V-hull seems to be a better choice for anything other than flat/calm.


In a nutshell, I dont know who or what to believe, and its causing me a lot of grief - its tough trying to educate yourself when so many people say so many different things to you.


So here's what I would like to use the boat: Lakes primarily with rocky beaches, some not having a formal boat launch, which means getting the boat back up to the truck/trailer - this will be 90% of the use. My trailer is modified, ie, it is a dog trailer which we will be putting a rack for the boat on, so I need to be able to put the boat up myself. I live in a coastal city, so the ability to hit some of the inlets around here with a crab trap or two would be a nice thing as well.


Any and all help is **greatly** appreciated.

 

[Ranchero50]

I think the dealers are giving you the best advice. From your description of intended use I'd suggest a 16' V bottom and a dedicated trailer. Fortunately that hull has been in production since the 50's. Locally old V hulls can be had for a song, add a trailer and decent 2 stroke engine and you are on the water for $1500-$2000. Honestly if you can't save up for a couple months and manage to at least get a $2k personal loan I'd recommend another hobby.

I would not recommend getting a smaller boat. With 2 kids you need some room. With a little one you need a dry spot on the floor and some disposable army men or Hot Wheels cars and a blanket. A smaller hull also doesn't hold it's value vs. the larger one. Even if you end up with an old bare bones flimsy hull you can repower / accessorize it and then later buy another modern hull to put your goodies on.

The whole loading and unloading a boat from a truck or makeshift trailer is ok if it's bare bones or a canoe. For a decent wide hull you'll tire of it pretty quickly.

Finally fall is here, expect some great deals to come up for sale right now. Late winter is another good time to buy.

 

[Zum]

I don't think I'd go smaller than a 1448,maybe a 1442,with the kids being smaller.
A boat that size will scoot right along,even with a 9.9hp(not fast but should plane out.)
Should be able to find something used,just don't be in a big rush.
If the kids still want to go as they age,a boat that size will seem small as well.

Not sure why your friend takes the outboard off the boat...no trailer?

 

[TheMaestro]

12' is not an option for 2 adults and 2 kids, and there's no way you could all fish out of it without poking an eye out. We have a 14' with my wife and 8yr old and we all can fish out of it, and could manage another child on board. For cruising, 4 adults works well. Its only a 9.9, but we plane well. For you, if you can go to a 16', you'd be set, with a 15-20hp. They can be found used, and I woukd suggest finding one with a trailer. Dont get the 12', unless you plan on fishing 2 at a time.

 

[haute]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Even if you end up with an old bare bones flimsy hull you can repower / accessorize it and then later buy another modern hull to put your goodies on.

This is what I'm thinking as well. Get something loved, but well-used and put some TLC into it ("tender, loving, care", not "time and lots of cash" ).

Finally fall is here, expect some great deals to come up for sale right now. Late winter is another good time to buy.

I was wondering when the best time to buy boats was...

I would love to run a MV jon boat, but jon boats are not popular up in these parts, so there are literally none used. V's are pretty much defacto, but they range wildly in price and condition.

The best price I could find on a 1448 was a Lowe mod v-bow for $2K. That marina sells the 1436L (lightweight) for $999, but I think 36" is too narrow.

As much as I would like a 15-20 hp, two factors against me; 1) price and 2) there are a LOT of lakes around here locally which have a 10hp limit.

Not sure why your friend takes the outboard off the boat...no trailer?

Exactly. He custom-fabbed a really cool frame/loader for his truck instead.

12' is not an option for 2 adults and 2 kids, and there's no way you could all fish out of it without poking an eye out. We have a 14' with my wife and 8yr old and we all can fish out of it, and could manage another child on board. For cruising, 4 adults works well. Its only a 9.9, but we plane well. For you, if you can go to a 16', you'd be set, with a 15-20hp. They can be found used, and I woukd suggest finding one with a trailer. Dont get the 12', unless you plan on fishing 2 at a time.

Great advice. Thank you, although a 16' is probably too big for many reasons, storage space being a big one.

 

[haute]

Another question.

Would a 12' work if it was a flat bottom, with a wide chine, say something like a Princecraft Ungava?

 

[TheMaestro]

For the 4 of you? You need the extra length. If storage of the boat is an issue, consider the 14'. Thats exactly why I got one, I woukd have preferred. 16, but i like to store mine in the garage during fishing season and the 16 wont fit.
Go to a park where you can rent a 12', and try it out.. Its the only way you can really get a feel of how small it will be for the 4 of you. The extra 2' in length a bigger difference than it sounds.

 

[FerrisBueller]

14' at the very least, you'd be happier with a nice 16' as your family will grow out of the 14' real quick. For used boats the pricing isn't much different between 14 and 16. In the end it comes down to what you can find for the best deal.

 

[jeffh129]

Fall is a great time to buy a used boat. Craigslist will be your friend. Start watching every day. Good boats don't last long. Also I agree with everyone else. A 14ft is the smallest you should consider based on your family size. You'll be very sorry if you buy a 12ft. You might not even within the stated weight limits on a 12.

Happy boat hunting! Take your time and you will find yourself a nice setup

 

[haute]

Again, thanks for the replies, everyone.


I'm going to look at a couple of 14's this weekend. One in particular I'm targeting is an Alumacraft T-14. Its been on CL a couple of months, but how the guy listed it made it kind of hard to find.


So what size engine should I be looking for? Most 14's seem to take a 15hp, with many of the heavier ones taking up to a 25.

Would a 9.9 do well for a family of 4? I know the boat might not plane well with 4 plus all gear, but it should suffice, right?

 

[Ranchero50]

The difference between most 9.9's and 15's is in the carb. At least the mid '90's Merc I had was. Per your lake restrictions just get the 9.9 sticker for the engine cover and forgedaboutit.

For curiosities sake tape the outline of a 14 and 16' hull on your floor and pile you and the family in there with all your toys and think about it. A 14' hull is a great 2 person casting platform. It's tight for 3 adults if you are cat fishing anchored. Throw in a toddler - 10yo who is going to get bored and want a spot to play and you are going to outgrow a 14 foot hull in one season.

My Alumacraft MV1448 ended up being a 16'6" x 48" bottom. It's still only a 2 place hull for smallmouth casting but is a great 3 place cat fishing hull. You may also want to consider a cheaper mid '80's glass boat if aluminum isn't available.

What's you location?

 

[haute]

Ranchero50 » 09 Aug 2013, 13:18[/url]"]The difference between most 9.9's and 15's is in the carb. At least the mid '90's Merc I had was. Per your lake restrictions just get the 9.9 sticker for the engine cover and forgedaboutit.

For curiosities sake tape the outline of a 14 and 16' hull on your floor and pile you and the family in there with all your toys and think about it. A 14' hull is a great 2 person casting platform. It's tight for 3 adults if you are cat fishing anchored. Throw in a toddler - 10yo who is going to get bored and want a spot to play and you are going to outgrow a 14 foot hull in one season.

My Alumacraft MV1448 ended up being a 16'6" x 48" bottom. It's still only a 2 place hull for smallmouth casting but is a great 3 place cat fishing hull. You may also want to consider a cheaper mid '80's glass boat if aluminum isn't available.

What's you location?

A sticker. BRILLIANT!

... I would never have thought of that...

I'm in Vancouver, Canada.

So, that means I'm 20 minutes away from the Pacific; lots of crabbing and prawning to be done, plus, there are a lot of lakes around here, and where we want to go up North, where we are after Kokanee and Rainbow trout (trawling).

With that said, 90% of the time, the boat will be trawling for trout, so almost no casting. Any casting we do will be on the river shore.

 

[jackinok]

mine was/is a 47 model ,14 ft lone star v hull. 5 hp motor. its now on its second trailer, still completly original except for the addition of rod holders,and its second paint job. it raised my two kids, 6 grand kids, starting on the great grandkids,and is fished out of nearly every weekend,and has never leaked that i recall. long story short, these old boats can last a long time, so what may seem like a large investment now is not so much when you consider it over a couple of lifetimes. The thing that was my biggest concern was i wanted the depth a v-hull gives over a flat bottom when the children were small. My daughter and son were in that boat before they could walk, and ive never had them even close to falling out. Ive wanted to THROW them out more than once though!LOL I personally consider a jon boat to be more of a specialty boat,and not something neccesarily for a first time owner. ( my opinion of course theres lots who will disagree) but just by their nature they take a little more boat skills to be really safe in all weather and conditions. I would recommend a deep v, and if you own a pickup a boat loader on top of a cap. Makes a nice setup for someone on a budget ,and you can buy a good old boat,a pickup cap, and the loader about any where. when i was a kid, a station wagon was our camper, chuck house, boat hauler and everything and we always had a blast wherever dad decided to stop.

 

[haute]

Well, I'm going to look at a boat in two weekends (this weekend I'm off camping), and have a loose in-place purchase agreement with the seller (if I like it when I see it, I'll buy it).

Its a mid-80's 14' Princecraft, with a same-aged 20hp Merc, and comes with a freshly painted, new rubber, re-done bearings trailer, for $1500.

I'm taking a very boat-experienced friend with me to look at it (the guy who I went on the fishing trip with, mentioned in my first post).

The reason for them selling is they apparently have too many boats, and the guy's wife has asked him to thin the inventory.

*If* I end up buying the boat, from the looks of it, my winter projects will be to replace all of the wood on the seats, re-paint the inside hull, and build a storage/cubby hole in the bow.

Look good from the pictures?

 

[TheMaestro]

The price point is good (at least its inline with what they go for here in southwest ontario), and hopefully your buddy can hear and see the motor running. However, the pictures seem to show a gunwale repair on the starboard side, midship. The same area towards the stern looks bent. I would ask about what happened. Its not a deal breaker, but if the original gunwale broke, then the repair has to be strong enough so its ridgid. Definitely worth knocking off a couple of hundred in the asking price if it is indeed a repair.

 

[Kismet]

Don't know your market, but that seems to be a fair-ish price. Repairs should be explained--and discounted. Keep in mind that you have the 10hp limit lakes, but the 20 is a better motor for your family. (I don't know about a sticker switch, but I tend to follow the rules, so that's your decision. Keep in mind the enforcement folks do motor checking for a living, and what may seem an "ok" thing to you, is a violation of the rules to them. justsayin')

Also, the seller must know he is not going to get his asking price, so, without being aggressive, talk about his "best" price, and your concerns about maintaining an older boat and motor while still feeding your children.

Look at the trailer closely as well. Tires alone can run you a hundred dollars or more. Wiring for the lights is simple, until it starts to make no sense and makes you crazy. #-o You have to put a hitch on your vehicle, and wire it, as well. Simple little stuff which adds up.

But you are on the right track, and looking at a good rig size.

Also, recognize this is your first viewing. To paraphrase an old saying:" Shop twice, buy once."

Have fun, be safe.

 

[haute]

TheMaestro » 15 Aug 2013, 03:59[/url]"]The price point is good (at least its inline with what they go for here in southwest ontario), and hopefully your buddy can hear and see the motor running.

Much like housing here out West, boats are over-priced too.

$1500 for a 14', 20hp, and trailer all-in, in that condition is in this part of the woods is an INSANELY good deal. Most 14's + motor are $2200-$2500 here. Add in a trailer and the asking prices are usually well above $3k, unless the setup is an absolute dung-heap.

However, the pictures seem to show a gunwale repair on the starboard side, midship. The same area towards the stern looks bent. I would ask about what happened. Its not a deal breaker, but if the original gunwale broke, then the repair has to be strong enough so its ridgid. Definitely worth knocking off a couple of hundred in the asking price if it is indeed a repair.

I did notice it looks like something is on top of the gunwale, but there is an identical piece on the port side of the boat too. What those are, I dont know, but I will certainly ask.

Thanks for the inspection and advice.

Kismet » 15 Aug 2013, 07:00[/url]"]Don't know your market, but that seems to be a fair-ish price.

As I said above, this is an unheard of price in these parts.

Repairs should be explained--and discounted.

Asking price on the boat and motor was $1250. I asked about the trailer and he said he'd go as low as $1500 for all three, so I dont think there is much more wiggle room.

Keep in mind that you have the 10hp limit lakes, but the 20 is a better motor for your family. (I don't know about a sticker switch, but I tend to follow the rules, so that's your decision. Keep in mind the enforcement folks do motor checking for a living, and what may seem an "ok" thing to you, is a violation of the rules to them. justsayin')

I have been talking to a few guys at work here who fish, and all of them said that for the restricted lakes around here, they really arent anything to write home about anyways in terms of fishing. Further to that, many lakes are electric-only, which I was planning on adding anyhow, so I'd rather have a more powerful motor, that way, I can scoot around crabbing or prawning close to the shore out on the ocean.

Also, the seller must know he is not going to get his asking price, so, without being aggressive, talk about his "best" price, and your concerns about maintaining an older boat and motor while still feeding your children.

I'll for sure see, but I doubt he'd be willing to move much.

Look at the trailer closely as well. Tires alone can run you a hundred dollars or more. Wiring for the lights is simple, until it starts to make no sense and makes you crazy. #-o You have to put a hitch on your vehicle, and wire it, as well. Simple little stuff which adds up.

The trailer has just been freshly painted, new bearings in the wheels, and the tires are new. All lights work. Aside from that, I have a dog trailer which I tow three to four times a week, which is far more complicated than a simple boat trailer (7-pin) and I recently completely re-wired myself. So, trailer electrics and truck setup are already a non-factor.

But you are on the right track, and looking at a good rig size.

Also, recognize this is your first viewing. To paraphrase an old saying:" Shop twice, buy once."

Have fun, be safe.

Thanks for help. I'm hoping this thing is in good shape, but yes, I do understand this is the first one. Unfortunately though, if I buy by the piece where I live, the sum of the parts will be much greater than this whole.

These are some examples of common pricing for the area:

https://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pml/boa/3969913452.html
https://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/3952034456.html
https://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/boa/3911359048.html
https://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/boa/3931278490.html
https://bc.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-powerboats-motorboats-14-ft-Mirrocraft-aluminum-W0QQAdIdZ505190445 ("homemade trailer is an extra")

 

[Skully]

Well your on the right track as far as price, used is always going to be a better deal.. As far as motors are concerned and you will get a lot of opinions on this but most will agree that a Johnson or Evinrude is the way to go in older motors parts are cheap they are much more reliable. With the weight of your family a 20 hp minimum 2 cycle is your best minimum.. 25 hp would be ideal in the event you wanted to do a little customizing to your taste and by doing so you add more weight to the boat. V hull is what I have and I have had many a flat bottom jon boat. But when it comes to kids being on the boat a v bottom offers higher sides and thats safer for the little ones.. Don't jump on the first deal you see its amazing what you can find for the money... Most of all be safe and watch that precious cargo...

 

[Skully]

I would pass on that boat you posted I don't like the damage I see t [-X o the structure of the boat keep looking don't rush the season will be over soon and thats when you find the best deals when people get tired of of boating and christmas is coming so things tend to be sold before the holidays. keep hunting.....

 

[WaterWaif]

I question design /layout for gunwale shape. Not having benches cross ways in from stern to mid ships may be a factor in flexed/bent areas.
If Vancouver craigs list any indication, price says its to be looked at(all ready).
Motors listed there not so bad but for what ever reason be it demand or supply or wishes, boats are priced without motors for about what a small mint motor to boot price is here with few 14 to 16 footers ready to go .
Eye catchers about double the price i,m used to also.
Worse case its save for a craft if none found to suit.
Not sure where compromise between capacity of craft and being able to launch without a trailer would be.
A "car topper" lighter weight 12 footer ideal for one person,or two people to portage short distances but just not a family craft for comfort or stability on all but the calmest. I did it with three of us ,2 adults one kid. Stay out of much waves,boat traffic, and watch the weather like life depends on it.
Find a way to test run some boats to confirm your needs,add wants that fit budget.
14 ft with a trailer is as small as i would recommend too.While near maximum recommended h.p. is better for resale and fun, i could live with a 15 h.p. motor on one if it meant boating or not.
Wild guess three to three and a half grand for a fourteen foot with a twenty five horse in great shape , with trailer, on the rare right day, which will not be often...with about a 650 lb. capacity.