Help me diagnose

[Aaron Lariscy]

Aaron, out of curiosity could you tell us the exact model code from the ID plate.
E25RCNB
I went back and read everything posted so far, am I correct from what I read that you are not the original owner of the motor (you mentioned you could see where someone had tinkered with some of the linkage)? Assuming you are not the original owner, is this the first time you tried running it?

I am not the original owner and this is not my first time running it I have been fishing out of it for about a month.

If not did it run OK before and just started doing this?

No it has always had trouble idleing and starting from the beginning.

If it was running OK before what has been done/changed just before it started acting up?

So far I have verified good spark, soaked and rebuilt the carb, and decarbed the motor.

You mentioned about cleaning or going to clean the carb, my guess is that in the end this will be a fuel related issue. Also wondering if a PO may have changed some parts around (such as the carb)??

I am doubting it's fuel related being I have thoroughly cleaned the carb and rebuilt it, it does appear to have a 30hp carb from the PO but other than that I have no clue.

 

[bbstacker1]

OK, using your Model ID, we have an 82 model year engine, so as you said that one is a choke motor, that will rule out a primer acting up. Lets start with trying to get rid of that lean sneeze and see what it does from there. If the PO switched around parts (such as the carb) you may end up having to go back to original to get it to run right or there may be other parts that have to be changed also to make it right, good luck.

 

[Aaron Lariscy]

So I got home today and put it in my half of a 55gallon drum and tried to start it up. Now I ain't no little guy and I'm pretty young and full of piss and vinegar and I tell no lie when I say I probley pulled on this sucker for no less than a minuet and a half before it started to crank. :shock: After it started I revved it for a second then eased it down into an idle and it purred for 15+ minuets, I killed it then started it again and it was running before I got through a full stroke. I shut it back down immediately and walked away for ~1hr and came back and again it started before I got a full stroke on it, at this point I pulled the fuel line and let it idle till it ran out of fuel.

Tomorrow I will repeat the process, I think it was flooded on the first start and that accounts for why it was so hard to start. I choked and unchoked it several times and I had fuel running out the throat of the carb. Anyone got any other ideas as to why it would be so hard to start?

 

[cajuncook1]

Couple of thoughts on the matter:

You stated that it has always (since you owned it) has had trouble idling and starting.

1.) You think the PO put a 30hp carburetor on (People play around with motors by switching carburetor and other things and making modifications and the motor does not run right)*** This is not uncommon symptoms of a motor with the wrong carburetor.......who knows what year carburetor he put on that motor. My advice, if it is 30 or 35hp carburetor on that motor, then you need to get the correct carburetor(25hp) on that motor.

- That motor is running lean...you can hear the lean sneezing and erratic idling despite adjustment of the slow idle needle.
- A lean running motor will deliver a poor fuel/oil mix to the internals. That fuel/oil mix is your motors only internal lubrication. So you and the previous owner maybe causing premature internal wear of the pistons, rings, cylinders, crankshafts, rods and bearings.*****Thus leading to low compression not related to carbon build up and stuck rings. (Seafoam only helps when rings are stuck from excessive carbon build up)

2.) A motor that has low compression will display these signs:

- difficult starting

- poor and erratic idling

- some loss of power and speed at higher throttle settings.

You stated that your compression values were 90 psi top and bottom cylinders. Am I correct?? Those models had higher compression values.....usually 120 or greater psi. But would run ok at about 100psi or greater.. (1980's improved on compression values)

- after the decarbing with the seafoam....did you recheck your compression. Please recheck, when the motor is cold. So, recheck the compression before you start trying to restart it.


***Another thought, just to make sure it is not something simple...get a known good hose and bulb and tank then try run the motor.


- If the current fuel lines going from the tank to motor and also from motor to fuel pump and then to carburetor has small cracks or is stiff, then you can get poor fuel delivery because air might be pulling into the fuel line and displacing fuel.

*** Another thought, when you start the motor and it starts idling erratically or lean sneezing, then pump your primer bulb on your fuel line. If the motor starts to run better or idles much faster then you may have a bad or leaking fuel pump. Resolution a new fuel pump.

One last thing, after you did the decarbing with the seafoam, did you remove your spark plugs and clean them. When you decarb, the spark plugs will get fouled up with carbon and coke. Clean them and return them back and retorque them.


The above assumptions are made upon your statement that you have good spark and the carburetor is clean and the settings are correct and you have the appropriate carburetor for your motor.

 

[Aaron Lariscy]

Couple of thoughts on the matter:

You stated that it has always (since you owned it) has had trouble idling and starting.

1.) You think the PO put a 30hp carburetor on (People play around with motors by switching carburetor and other things and making modifications and the motor does not run right)*** This is not uncommon symptoms of a motor with the wrong carburetor.......who knows what year carburetor he put on that motor. My advice, if it is 30 or 35hp carburetor on that motor, then you need to get the correct carburetor(25hp) on that motor.

I agree 100% the .2hp the carburetor might be providing is not worth the trouble and fuel cost it is causing. Any ideas on where I can find one I havent been able to pin one down so far.

- That motor is running lean...you can hear the lean sneezing and erratic idling despite adjustment of the slow idle needle.
- A lean running motor will deliver a poor fuel/oil mix to the internals. That fuel/oil mix is your motors only internal lubrication. So you and the previous owner maybe causing premature internal wear of the pistons, rings, cylinders, crankshafts, rods and bearings.*****Thus leading to low compression not related to carbon build up and stuck rings. (Seafoam only helps when rings are stuck from excessive carbon build up)

2.) A motor that has low compression will display these signs:

- difficult starting

- poor and erratic idling

- some loss of power and speed at higher throttle settings.

You stated that your compression values were 90 psi top and bottom cylinders. Am I correct?? Those models had higher compression values.....usually 120 or greater psi. But would run ok at about 100psi or greater.. (1980's improved on compression values)

- after the decarbing with the seafoam....did you recheck your compression. Please recheck, when the motor is cold. So, recheck the compression before you start trying to restart it.

I already did and thought I stated it went up to about 110lbs on each cylinder top and bottom.

***Another thought, just to make sure it is not something simple...get a known good hose and bulb and tank then try run the motor.


The tank and lines are already know good I use the same one on my 9.9 with no issues. The lines on the motor are brand new and I have checked all the fitting to make sure they are tight.

- If the current fuel lines going from the tank to motor and also from motor to fuel pump and then to carburetor has small cracks or is stiff, then you can get poor fuel delivery because air might be pulling into the fuel line and displacing fuel.

*** Another thought, when you start the motor and it starts idling erratically or lean sneezing, then pump your primer bulb on your fuel line. If the motor starts to run better or idles much faster then you may have a bad or leaking fuel pump. Resolution a new fuel pump.

I no longer have the lean sneeze or erratical idle I have since opened my low speed adjustment up to compensate.

One last thing, after you did the decarbing with the seafoam, did you remove your spark plugs and clean them. When you decarb, the spark plugs will get fouled up with carbon and coke. Clean them and return them back and retorque them.

Ill clean them this afternoon.

The above assumptions are made upon your statement that you have good spark and the carburetor is clean and the settings are correct and you have the appropriate carburetor for your motor.

 

[cajuncook1]

I reread the posts and I didn't see any reference to you previously posting your compression had pop up some after decarbing with Seafoam.....but very glad to hear that it popped up to 110psi....much better.

Sometimes there is more to just increasing the hp on a engine other than just swapping out the carbs. The reeds and exhaust tube play important part in proper running and idling. The carb, reeds, and exhaust flow all have to be compatible....even though the powerheads of the two motor or identical or similar.

The carburetor venturi (diameter) opening and opening of the appropriate reeds have both been established by the product engineers for proper fuel delivery. If the exhaust tube is not of adequate diameter and flow then it can restrict the flow of exhaust gases some and create poor running.

**So there has to be proper balance of the air/fuel intake, delivery, combustion, and escape of exhaust gases......So that new 30 or 35hp carb very well may be causing bad motor karma so to speak.


Excellent glad to hear your lean sneeze was resolved. Like another poster stated 1 1/2 turns out of the slow idle needle is only a starting point. You have to adjust by turning counter clockwise facing the motor to make the fuel delivery richer and turn in (clockwise) to make the fuel delivery leaner. Sounds like you've done that successfully if you are no longer erratically idling and lean sneezing.


As far as getting a new carb....about $205.00 at the product house. An option is a used carburetor.

Here is a link to a free advertisement at the AOMCI (Antique Outboard Motor Club Inc) website. I am member there and there are plenty of guys that are mechanics and hobbyist that have plenty of parts motors that might be able to sell a carburetor for a decent price.

Please read the rule for posting first. (They are little strict about how it is posted to prevent bots and commercial scammers from posting.

https://www.aomci.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1326461963

This is the advertising link Webvertize.

https://www.aomci.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?board=Webvertize


Here are a list of email addresses and or online links to outboard salvage sites.

https://www.sea-way.com
https://www.outboard-parts.com
https://www.laingsoutboards.com
https://www.tcoutboard.com
https://www.fairwindsmarina.com
https://www.salvagemarine.com
https://www.marinepartsoutlet.com
https://www.outboardexchange.com
https://www.Superior Marine (800-338-9281)
https://www.budgetboats.net
https://www.americanoutboard.com
https://www.piratemarinesalvage.com
https://www.trixieslanding.com
https://www.mmmarinesalvage.com


Call around these places and see if you can get a good deal.

 

[bbstacker1]

Just a thought, if you are sure someone has changed the carb, Johny25 has a post going right now talking about converting a J/E 20/25 hp into a 30/35 hp you might hit him up about what all he had to do to make things work right. Another thought, if you still have a contact number for the PO, speak with them and see what they changed on it to give you an ideal where to begin!

 

[Aaron Lariscy]

Got home today plugged in the fuel, primed it and it started second pull and idled like a top. Shut it down and it started right back up no trouble, pulled the line and let it run till it died. Ill do it again tomorrow.

 

[bbstacker1]

Sounds good, with any luck at all what you have done so far will be all you need to do.

 

[djchris]

I was having similiar issues with my 89 johnson 25 hp......something to try is when it's running rough like it did in the video spay some carb cleaner around to check for leaks in the crank seals or crank case gasket. if you have a leak the idle will smooth out for a few seconds and than go back to running rough.....mine didn't do it all the time. sometimes it would start right up sometimes it would take me 20 mins to get running and idled up high till warm for it to just stay running. other than that it would run great till the last time i had it out last year than it wouldn't run worth a crap unless i help in the choke/inricher or what ever it is.......hopefully you can figure it out.....i took mine to a mechanic and it has cost me about 700 dollars to fix.