If you had $5 to $8 grand what would you buy?

[BloodStone]

Don't you just L-O-V-E government??

I don't remember the details but in 1991 the city "transferred" ownership of the line to the owner. I think is was an effort of the city council to appear to have lowered property taxes.

QUESTION: What are your city taxes for then (besides paying the absurd salary of Bad News Barret)?
Was this a city ballet proposal voted on by the citizenry during an election year or a shady deal done quietly by the mayor & city council alone?
If I were you, I'd get together with the other 3 residents, find a nasty, mean lawyer for a free consolation & see what he/she had to say about it?
Or better still, contact your local state representatives & or the state Attorney General. Because it seems to me that little scam the city is pulling
can't really be legal because you don't own the street, the city does. Just like you don't own the sidewalk in front of your house or the easement either.
Do they charge the citizenry to fix the potholes in the street too?
Don't rollover for these b*astards-FIGHT! :x
(for $5,000-$8,000.00 I sure as Hell would!)

 

[JMichael]

Don't you just L-O-V-E government??

I don't remember the details but in 1991 the city "transferred" ownership of the line to the owner. I think is was an effort of the city council to appear to have lowered property taxes.

QUESTION: What are your city taxes for then (besides paying the absurd salary of Bad News Barret)?
Was this a city ballet proposal voted on by the citizenry during an election year or a shady deal done quietly by the mayor & city council alone?
If I were you, I'd get together with the other 3 residents, find a nasty, mean lawyer for a free consolation & see what he/she had to say about it?
Or better still, contact your local state representatives & or the state Attorney General. Because it seems to me that little scam the city is pulling
can't really be legal because you don't own the street, the city does. Just like you don't own the sidewalk in front of your house or the easement either.
Do they charge the citizenry to fix the potholes in the street too?
Don't rollover for these b*astards-FIGHT! :x
(for $5,000-$8,000.00 I sure as Hell would!)

You sound about the same as I would feel about it if it were me in that situation. It just sounds fishy (pun intended :mrgreen: ) to me that the homeowner wasn't aware of this responsibly. Besides, what do they do with the revenue generated by the water dept and taxes?

 

[WaterWaif]

A. A well could be installed at the cost of repair in most places.(yes I know you are obligated to accept and pay for city water and of course sewer to discharge that water.)
B. It's mine to deal with?
Then I would like to request a zoning ordnance change.
A trout pound would look good in my front yard! [-o<
Sorry to read of your plight Bobberboy.
Hope the utility companies are not all trying the same approach there.

 

[bobberboy]

I really appreciate everyones outrage. I can't know but I have to wonder how many of you live outside of city jurisdictions. Those of you who do have somewhat more control of your properties and somewhat less of people telling you what you can and can't do. In order for me to do the work I'd first have to have a contractor's license - the city's not going to let just any bohunk dig around in their streets. In addition to water, there is also gas, sanitary and storm sewers down there. I'd have to be insured specifically for doing that type of work. I'd have to own or rent a backhoe (and know how to operate it). I'd have to own or rent the steel cage that's dropped into the hole to prevent cave-ins. I'd have to own or rent the "mole" that pulls the new pipe underground from the house to the hole in the street and know how to use it so the new pipe didn't end up next door.

I can't do any of these things. I was born on a farm and grew up in the country and learned to do a lot of things for myself. Being the son of a farmer I learned the necessity of having to repair things yourself. You can't be in the middle of the back 40 and wait around for some repair guy to show up when work needs to be done. My dad was the impresario of electrical tape and bailing wire. With those two materials he could have conquered small countries if he'd put his mind to it. I appreciate the ability to do things for oneself and take great pride in being able to do so.

My career choice took me to the city and with that came a lot of trade-offs. I have the security of having fire and police minutes away. The city plows and repairs the street I live on. But I can't build a shed larger than 100 sq/ft without the city's permission. I can't build a fence wherever I want. I can't keep bees or even chickens without a permit. Most annoyingly of all, I can't shoot the plague of squirrels constantly assaulting my bird feeders. The other thing I can't do is to repair city services. In all these matters I'm boned.

I completely agree with you that this is a heap of BS. Thing is that the change in "ownership" of the water line is now more than 20 years past and I can't imagine it hasn't been challenged before. How can I be required to own something beyond my property is indeed a mystery and full of $hit. To be made to own something that I have no control over or access to is pretty lame. I believe I mentioned earlier this transfer of ownership was probably done as a way for the city to cut its budget. And as someone else mentioned to have done so when many of the houses in the city are nearing the 100 year mark was an effort of the city to avoid what would have been a huge expense as the lines begin to fail wholesale (the day I called in to the city to report the leak, mine was #42 on the list at that time).

What are my taxes going for? Lots of things I'm sure but not for this. My city has a renowned park and lake system - a real plus when you have to drive more than 30 minutes to find the "country". We have pretty good public services including plowing all that snow we tend to get in the winter. In the last three decades the city has had to remove many thousands of elm trees due to Dutch elm disease and now it's the ash trees turn. I'm sure there are many other things to add to the list. I guess 20 years ago when the change in ownership was made I and my fellow citizens weren't paying attention or maybe we wanted property tax relief and broken water pipes seemed like a long way in the future. Whatever the case, a moment's inattention and this is the harvest we sowed all those years ago.

So, a letter to my council person is about the only thing to do to express my outrage. The correct phrase is "righteous indignation" and I thank you all for adding yours to the chorus. I don't want to look like I'm copping out. I'm just trying to be realistic. Being in my 60's I've learned about swimming upstream. You've really got to have the endurance if you're going to try otherwise you end up exhausted, or worse.

 

[DocWatson]

Didn't dodge the bullet but it wasn't fatal either...$5400.00. The highest bid was an incredible $9000! Oh my.

Make sure you know and understand your towns regulations on required repairs to any sidewalk or street you dig up or damage going under it. Some towns require the patch to be smooth and not a bump in the roadway. Ask the low bid how the finished job will look and ALWAYS insist on and be certain that your contractor gets all the proper permits and has the finished job inspected by the local inspector.

Good luck.

Thanks. The way it's going to work is that the city will hire the contractor now that we've chosen the bid. The guy at the city told us he always recommends taking the lowest bid because they all have to do exactly the same work. The city will take care of all - hiring, inspecting the work from start to finish including riding herd on the contractor. We only need to sign the check. I think this is a good system as people generally don't have experiences dealing with contractors. The city is really involved every step of the way - except for ownership of the dang line!

That's probably the best solution to the problem, given the circumstances. Unlike government to be so reasonable and make the contractor toe the line, regardless of their bid. And this is really not a DIY job unless you do excavation work for a living. Most towns don't have any idea where the water lines for houses run under a property since the builders weren't always required to follow any guidelines back in the day and ran them where they liked. If you fail to have the utility companies come out and mark their lines and runs, you could dig one up by accident and have to pay for that fix as well, or break an electric or gas line and really have a problem. City life is not as free as the rural life, but it has to be so for the good of all. I'm over 60 as well and have learned, like you, to only pick fights I have time to finish and am pretty certain I can win. :wink:

 

[BloodStone]

So, a letter to my council person is about the only thing to do to express my outrage.

Forget the city council! Like I said before, contact your local state representatives & your State Attorney General.
This CAN'T be legal. I'd also talk to an OUT-OF-TOWN lawyer who specializes in property rights etc...
After all, you're not talking a few hundred bucks here (& what about those senior citizens on fixed incomes?).
And why should it be the citizens responsibility or "fault" because of poor planning by the city forefathers?
Also, the city imo is handing you a pile of BS because I know for a fact (having done an internship in city government)
that there are state & federal grants available to small towns & cities for various public works projects.
Your city manager should know this better than anyone. Call him/her out on it. On a side note, ask him/her
whatever happened to Obama's "stimulus package" (circa 2009) and all those "shovel ready jobs" :roll: (aka funds for public sector work on roads & bridges)?
Not busting your chops here, just offering up suggestions-Good luck & give em' Hell!

 

[Lowe 2070 CC]

So, a letter to my council person is about the only thing to do to express my outrage.

Forget the city council! Like I said before, contact your local state representatives & your State Attorney General.
This CAN'T be legal. I'd also talk to an OUT-OF-TOWN lawyer who specializes in property rights etc...
After all, you're not talking a few hundred bucks here (& what about those senior citizens on fixed incomes?).
And why should it be the citizens responsibility or "fault" because of poor planning by the city forefathers?
Also, the city imo is handing you a pile of BS because I know for a fact (having done an internship in city government)
that there are state & federal grants available to small towns & cities for various public works projects.
Your city manager should know this better than anyone. Call him/her out on it. On a side note, ask him/her
whatever happened to Obama's "stimulus package" (circa 2009) and all those "shovel ready jobs" :roll: (aka funds for public sector work on roads & bridges)?
Not busting your chops here, just offering up suggestions-Good luck & give em' Hell!

Your posts would be much easier to read if they weren't always in Bold type.

 

[BloodStone]

Your posts would be much easier to read if they weren't always in Bold type.

I do that so the elderly here & those with poor eyesight can still read them.
(better? )

 

[Lowe 2070 CC]

I would suggest you just make the Font size larger, rather than making everything Bold :wink:

 

[bobberboy]

So the issue of font size and weight notwithstanding, I have an update. In an incredible stroke of good fortune our homeowner's policy pays for the hole! I don't understand the logic behind it but our insurance will pay for the hole to be dug and for it to be repaired again. It won't pay to do the actual repair of the water line buy hey, the hole's gotta cost a lot to dig and fill in again. USAA insurance is awesome. I would have bet that the insurance wouldn't pay for anything.

The contractor still hasn't showed up. We've got a little delta forming in the gutter from the sand being brought up with the water. Still have good water pressure in the house so it's not a problem so far.

 

[KMixson]

Glad to hear that you are covered at least partly. Still hurts, but not as bad.

 

[BloodStone]

Glad to hear that you are covered at least partly. Still hurts, but not as bad.

Yeah as long as they don't turn around raise your rates later. [-o<
(I'd still contact your State Reps & Attorney General & at least ask them some questions regarding legality).

 

[TexasLoneStar56]

Bobber,

I was just checking to see about your lines. I've been busy and haven't been on here in a bit and was thinking about it today. I'm glad you got it fixed and your home owners insurance paid some. Funny how the power of prayer works.....

Keith

 

[bobberboy]

Bobber,

I was just checking to see about your lines. I've been busy and haven't been on here in a bit and was thinking about it today. I'm glad you got it fixed and your home owners insurance paid some. Funny how the power of prayer works.....

Keith

It just got fixed last week. They had to put a steel contraption kind of like an upside-down hog trough with an LP heater inside to thaw the street and ground beneath. It took two days and a second hole in the yard to get it done. They found frozen ground down to three feet. I didn't look back to see if I reported the bids. High bid was $9000! Low bid was $5400. We took the low bid. The city guy said that the contractors all have to do the same work - they all have to have their work inspected so there was no sense taking any other than the low bid. The permits alone cost $1450; including a $650 permit to turn off the water main.

On the plus side, several good things to report. First we have no lead in the water line anymore and our water pressure/volume is much improved. The contractors were nice guys, did good work and did it efficiently. The best surprise was that without exception every person from the city water department was a pleasure to deal with. They were helpful, informed and informative, and pleasant. Not what I've learned to expect from the city. Hats off to the Minneapolis Water Department. Insurance paid 2/3's of the cost so all in all we escaped relatively unscathed.

We learned a little along the way too. We discovered we have "short water", meaning the main is on our side of the street versus "long water" which would have had the main on the other side. Having short water probably cut a couple grand off the cost as they might have had to close the street or dig two holes in the street in addition to the one in the yard. Short water it turns out is less expensive than long water. Who knew?

One little bit of irony was, of course, the leak was on the main side of the stop box. Under the old regime the city would have been responsible for all but the new copper to the house.

 

[DocWatson]

More as a point of information than to stir things up again, if the leak was on the main side of the stop box it should be the town's responsibility to fix that.....
https://www.homeserveusa.com/about-...ice-line-information/homeowner-responsibility

But that might have something to do with why your insurance picked up the tab for the hole in your yard but not the pipe. If there was nothing wrong with it, the pipe replacement is kinda like replacing the water pump on a car when you replace the thermostat.... you're already in there, so why not do it.

Glad you got it fixed at a price you can (almost) live with.

 

[bobberboy]

More as a point of information than to stir things up again, if the leak was on the main side of the stop box it should be the town's responsibility to fix that.....
https://www.homeserveusa.com/about-...ice-line-information/homeowner-responsibility

Pre 1992, yes. After that the city "transferred" ownership of the line to the main to the homeowner.