Jet boats seem to be the Rage....?

[BigTerp]

I fish the same stretch of river that Ranchero does, and waterfowl hunt even further up river. Not sure if you guys are talking about just inboard jets, but I recenlty put a 50/35 Johnson outboard on my 1648MV. Have only had the motor on and running good for the past month or 2. But have already went through many areas that I wouldn't dream of taking a prop through. Hunted this past weekend in the area Ranchero was referring to, had my buddy scared and amazed at the same time (me as well) at how shallow we could run. Yes, it's a fairly loud motor and is a pig on gas, but it's openend up areas for me to hunt and fish that I've only been to on my Dads air boat. I know I'll never go back to a prop as long as I'm running the upper Potomac.

 

[thudpucker]

Where would a guy look for a Jet Drive?
I'd thought of taking a 25 Johnson motor off the Outboard, and mating it to a Jet Drive, for an inside the boat operation.
It'd be an outboard inboard jet. :LOL2:

 

[New River Rat]

I run shoals regularly with a prop that I RARELY see jets attempt. A prop gets a quicker, more powerful bite and reacts faster than an impeller in hairy situations. I've driven jets, I'll never own one. Not saying either is right or wrong, but a prop suits my style better than a jet. And it's a trade off. Where a jet is fast, I'm not, where I'm fast, a jet is not. But I've never caught a fish running WAO.

 

[juggernot]

....I'm confused on what type of boat and motor you guys are refering to. Tunnel hulls? inboard/outboard jets? length/size of boat? The only jet boat I've been aboard had twin 385hp bigblock Fords and it was very impressive, running the Salmon River in Idaho in the off season w 4 peeps on a boat rated for 20+. The Jonboats I've seen, but not ridden locally were slow, performed badly on lakes w chop/wakes from other boats and I did'nt know if they were props/jets or tunnel hulls. None of the boats I assume were outboard jets were faster than than 20+/- at wot in my observation. I also wonder how the impellers on any of the jets hold up to ingesting gravel or anything but sandy bottom? Please school me on these questions.I have no doubt jets can navigate shallows better than a prop but there is a tradeoff on overall performance in capacity/weight of hull/payload/manuverability also?

 

[PSG-1]

Yeah, jets are LOUSY performers in choppy water, unless you get a jetboat with an aggressive V-hull and a deep enough spoon to knock out the cavitation. But then, with a hull that deep, it's going to take more water to float.

In the case of jet johns with PWC engines, everybody wants one built, but no one wants to spend the money to do it right. I give people a price, and they act like I'm trying to screw them over, or they try to low-ball me and get me to do it for nothing. People seem to think that AWS certified welders work for crackhead prices. That's not the case. I did not go to Florence-Darlington Tech for my welding certifications to work for crackhead prices. Nor have I spent over $50,000 on equipment to work for free, or just break even.

I've had 3 deals fall through on jetboat builds over the past 2 months, so, I'm done with inquiries about builds. If they don't want it done right, then, they don't need to waste my time, let them hire goober the mechanic to slap it together for them and see how long it lasts. Hope they have LOTS of thru-hull bearings and extra driveshafts to burn to allow for goober's lousy fit-up. I have better things to do with my time, like....doing nothing.

 

[RiverBottomOutdoors]

My outboard jet and tunnel hull goes where props won't dare. The first time you zip over a rock dam or through 4 inches of water you instantly become a believer. If you don't need to go super shallow or avoid under water debris like logs, rocks and shoals....you don't have a need for a jet.

 

[BigTerp]

RiverBottomOutdoors » Today, 10:40 am[/url]"]My outboard jet and tunnel hull goes where props won't dare. The first time you zip over a rock dam or through 4 inches of water you instantly become a believer. If you don't need to go super shallow or avoid under water debris like logs, rocks and shoals....you don't have a need for a jet.

This. When I first had my new setup out I was amazed, and instantly decided all the work and cost of getting a jet drive on my boat was well worth it. My best estimation of how shallow I can run my 1648MV with a Johnson 50/35 outboard jet is about 4-5". Even though it seems like 1-2" at times :shock:

 

[BigTerp]

juggernot » Today, 12:39 am[/url]"]....I'm confused on what type of boat and motor you guys are refering to. Tunnel hulls? inboard/outboard jets? length/size of boat? The only jet boat I've been aboard had twin 385hp bigblock Fords and it was very impressive, running the Salmon River in Idaho in the off season w 4 peeps on a boat rated for 20+. The Jonboats I've seen, but not ridden locally were slow, performed badly on lakes w chop/wakes from other boats and I did'nt know if they were props/jets or tunnel hulls. None of the boats I assume were outboard jets were faster than than 20+/- at wot in my observation. I also wonder how the impellers on any of the jets hold up to ingesting gravel or anything but sandy bottom? Please school me on these questions.I have no doubt jets can navigate shallows better than a prop but there is a tradeoff on overall performance in capacity/weight of hull/payload/manuverability also?

As far as speed goes I get 26+ with just me and gear. Add a buddy and hunting gear and I still get 25+. Guys like Ranchero get 40+ out of their setups :shock:

The impellers are made to be sharpened periodically as they can become dull with constantly ingesting what you described. There is also a liner within the pump housing that is made to wear. If the wear becomes enough to effect performance you can shim down the impeller in decrease the clearance between the liner and pump. My motor is a 1994 Johnson 50/35 that my buddy and I rebuilt. It looked to be run hard and put away wet by the PO. I'm 99% it still has the original liner and impeller and looks to have never been shimmed down and still doesn't need it.

 

[Ranchero50]

juggernot » Today, 00:39[/url]"]....I'm confused on what type of boat and motor you guys are refering to. Tunnel hulls? inboard/outboard jets? length/size of boat? The only jet boat I've been aboard had twin 385hp bigblock Fords and it was very impressive, running the Salmon River in Idaho in the off season w 4 peeps on a boat rated for 20+. The Jonboats I've seen, but not ridden locally were slow, performed badly on lakes w chop/wakes from other boats and I did'nt know if they were props/jets or tunnel hulls. None of the boats I assume were outboard jets were faster than than 20+/- at wot in my observation. I also wonder how the impellers on any of the jets hold up to ingesting gravel or anything but sandy bottom? Please school me on these questions.I have no doubt jets can navigate shallows better than a prop but there is a tradeoff on overall performance in capacity/weight of hull/payload/manuverability also?

Usually for fishing type hulls you have outboard jets, inboard jets like the Riverpro's or hybrid jetski I/B jets. Per your avatar pic, you'd remove you prop and lower unit and replace it with a Jet unit, you'd then have an O/B jet. You'd have a cable and cup over you discharge port for reverse and the rest would stay the same. Most hulls are 14 - 18 feet long and fish two comfortably. Some guys add small tunnels to get the jet foot level with the bottom of the hull.

My boat required fabricating a jet pump and motor mounts (plus a lot more) but I can run sub 2' water without any drama. Before with a 9.9 O/B my prop was dragging under those conditions. During late summer I routinely fish in water that my mushroom anchor doesn't get submerged in. My hull drafts 2-3" empty and maybe 5" with 2 people in it. Often I'll float with the trolling motor up since it drags the bottom when deployed (the prop is only 1" below the water normally). A prop boat just can't get to those areas and most heavier O/B jets ground out when they come off plane (truly something that has to be seen to believe). I can run over the interesting stuff and float back through it. I can feel the hull lift when I'm close to the bottom from the compression effect, feels almost like a roller coaster ride at times.

 

[PSG-1]

A prop boat just can't get to those areas and most heavier O/B jets ground out when they come off plane (truly something that has to be seen to believe). I can run over the interesting stuff and float back through it. I can feel the hull lift when I'm close to the bottom from the compression effect, feels almost like a roller coaster ride at times.

Having a jetboat that weighs about 1100-1200 lbs, I can speak from experience about grounding out, trying to run in water that's just too shallow. Only had it happen twice, which is a pretty good record for some of the water I've run in. Needless to say, it's a quick stop when it happens! :shock:

The shallow water cushion effect is a pretty neat thing to experience, when the boat hits deeper water, you can feel it squat, and when it crosses a shoal, it flattens out and begins to lift.

On another note about shallow water cushion, another neat effect is when you are in a shallow area, particularly a narrow area, like a ditch or small creek. You will get bank cushion on the bow, where the boat is pushing water ahead, and it causes the bow to veer away from the bank, while at the same time, water is being pushed from behind the boat and then rapidly filling back in, which causes a bank suction, drawing the stern into the bank.

What's really cool is making a boat do a reverse "wheelie". This is done with a regular prop drive, going in reverse in a shallow ditch. Works real good for guys like me that have to go through a narrow channel to get to the dock. Starting with the motor trimmed up, as you give it throttle, it begins to pull water under the transom, which raises it up. If done correctly, it will raise the transom so much that you have to trim the engine down more to keep the prop from sucking air. Using more throttle, you can bring the transom up high enough that you have to trim all the way down. This rapid pull of water under the transom causes the bow to squat, and as the water passes under the boat and fills in the void, it creates a standing wave behind the bow, as the boat moves along in reverse. Since the transom is the heaviest part of the boat, creating this lift effect picks it up, and drags the lighter bow end behind, which will allow you to go through water so shallow that you could never attempt to do it going forward. But don't back off the throttle until you begin to trim up, or it's a sudden stop that could damage your lower unit.

 

[thudpucker]

PSG1 said it all. I've worked on boats for nothing or very little most of my life.
Seemed like even when I got paid, it wasn't enough.

That's why I left the Boat business and went on to bigger and better things.

 

[PSG-1]

thudpucker » Today, 00:08[/url]"]PSG1 said it all. I've worked on boats for nothing or very little most of my life.
Seemed like even when I got paid, it wasn't enough.

That's why I left the Boat business and went on to bigger and better things.

Bingo!! More and more, I wish I had gone to college and become a lawyer, instead of dealing with the chit I deal with on a daily basis. Here in coastal SC, the cost of living keeps going up, it's getting about like NYC, every time I have to pay for something, it's an arm and a leg. But when it comes time for me to make some money, seems like the people I deal with are a bunch of cheapskates that want something for nothing. Like I said before, I need to name my business "Last Resort Welding" because I'm the last dumb SOB on the list of people they call, after they get told by other welders it'll be a month before they get their stuff worked on, or they get a price that makes them cringe, then they come to me.

Saw one of my fellow welders the other day at West Marine. He built a few boats, actually, small ships, during his time when he had his welding shop. But, he did the smart thing and got out of the business while the getting was good, like 15 years ago. He did keep his equipment, he just got rid of the shop and the headache. Several other welding shops in my area folded, went out of business, etc over the past decade or so. There isn't any money in welding anymore, at least, not here in my area. Only reason I haven't folded, is because I do other things to make ends meet, like commercial shellfishing. One of these days, though, I'll reach the point where I've had enough of the welding business, and I'll shut 'er down.

 

[turbotodd]

Jets have their place.

If you're not consistently running a shallow rock/gravel bottom area, they're really no good. Mud, leaves, twigs, grass are the jet's nemesis. I've sold a few to duck hunters, who'll use them in flooded timber. They all hated the jet. But put it on the White River in Northern arkansas, where in some areas it might only be 3" deep and 100 yards wide, they can run across those shoals wide open where a prop drive would be stuck. (been there done that in both prop drive and jet).

It all boils down to what you use the boat for.

If you normally run lakes and rivers that are deep, or mud bottom shallow, or flooded timber type stuff, stick with a prop. For those of us who run shallow rock or gravel bottom rivers for trophy trough, a jet on the right hull is really hard to beat; but a few things they aren't. Quiet. Efficient. Easy to turn. Cheap. Low maintenance.

Once the impeller wears and the RPM comes up past max, the clearance needs to be adjusted. Once you run out of shims, you have to replace the sleeve and impeller. They aren't cheap like a prop is (relatively speaking). A jet motor's best performance is on the first day of receiving the brand new jet foot. Once it gets used a little (and wears) performance degrades until the sleeve and impeller are replaced.

That said.....the absolute neatest aspect of a jet outboard is the ability to TOTALLY drench the guy that's trying to fish "on top of you"...you know, the guy who STOPS when he sees you pull a fish out, then chunks out a 10' homemade anchor and throws in 200 yards of line with a huge bobber on it, just to get wrapped around your rig. After you tell him to go away a few times and he sits there like he owns that spot, you can fire up the jet motor, tilt it up, and let him know you didn't appreciate his presence. Careful though, because that jet of water can hurt or throw 'em out of the boat. But honestly, with a larger outboard, it's entirely possible to throw a jet of water about 150' (or more). I saw a guy do it once on the White over by Cotter, AR and I still laugh about it. Thankfully nobody got hurt.

 

[PSG-1]

turbotodd » Today, 01:05[/url]"]

That said.....the absolute neatest aspect of a jet outboard is the ability to TOTALLY drench the guy that's trying to fish "on top of you"...you know, the guy who STOPS when he sees you pull a fish out, then chunks out a 10' homemade anchor and throws in 200 yards of line with a huge bobber on it, just to get wrapped around your rig. After you tell him to go away a few times and he sits there like he owns that spot, you can fire up the jet motor, tilt it up, and let him know you didn't appreciate his presence.

LMFAO!! =D> :mrgreen:

That almost makes me want to unbolt the prop foot on my Merc 50, and buy a jet foot, JUST FOR THAT PURPOSE!! If not for the rest of your post describing it as another location, I'd have sworn you fish in the same area as me, because the description of the a-hole fisherman sounds like what we have an over-abundance of around here! Right down to the 3 foot long bobber with 200 yards of line (I call those guys 'cork dorks') Their vessel contains no CFC, and by that, I mean, 'Common Freaking Courtesy'. They could probably use a good soaking to sober up from the drunk they pulled the night before, anyhow.

But, the way these so-called 'men' around here are, the second I blasted one of them with a jet of water, they'd be signing a warrant for 'assault' (since, technically, that's what it is) That's just exactly how they roll, too, run to the law like a crybaby.

Sigh.....like the saying goes "some people still have all their teeth because it's illegal to knock some sense into them"

 

[juggernot]

I saw a washdown from a bassboat operater upset w the crowd of peeps illegally fishing from the docks at the ramp on a local lake. There are signs forbidding fishing on or around the docks that are ignored by many. The guy was launching solo and the ramp had alot of traffic, there were about 10 boats waiting to load including me on a typical crowded saturday. The peeps were impeding everyone launching and loading and the docks are only 5'wide. I heard peeps waiting to launch yelling at the peeps to get off the docks to no avail. After launching and returning from parking one guy fired up his big 250 and trimmed the motor up high as he slowly turned, I realized what he was up too and I and the other boaters cheered and applauded as he shot a huge roostertail all over the dockhogers while sawing the wheel back and forth, almost knocking several into the lake, It was AWESOME!.

If i'm fishing and another boat get's too close I cast at their boat to keep them away, I also do it to ski-boats and jetfleas that attempt to pass within casting distance on large local lakes. I call it a courtesy cast.

I appreciate the Jetboat knowledge and also wonder what about tunnel hulls w prop drives? it seems they would be the best of both world allowing skinny water perf. prop safety, and big/choppy water ability w a hydraulic jackplate that could stick the prop down deeper in rough water?

 

[New River Rat]

Apples & oranges here, fellows. Someone said a jet has its place. I'll give it that, but it's place ain't on my boat. I use this custom unit/prop guard:


....coupled with a homemade tiller extension of 5 or 6 feet so I'm able to instantly transfer weight to any area of the boat. I can find a 8" chute in a ledge and get hrough places that I can't recall seeing jet-drives in a lifetime on the New. Here's an example:

 

[juggernot]

I've seen a rock guard made by welding a pitchfork to the front of the LU w the tines pointing down,and curved towards the LU it looked like it would protect the LU and the prop from damage while not causing alot of drag.

 

[PSG-1]

New River Rat » Today, 19:30[/url]"] I can find a 8" chute in a ledge and get hrough places that I can't recall seeing jet-drives in a lifetime on the New. Here's an example:

You run THAT with a prop drive? Wow! I'd be hesitant to try it with a jet, unless I had UHMW bottom. Then again, I'm not used to running in rocks, I'm used to sandbars and oyster beds.

 

[tigfisher]

i think he was meaning running a chute..aka channel, ive been there done that with a prop...youll spin out few props and then your lowerend gumball gears goes out.
there must not be much jet boaters in your area...trust me ,if a prop goes thru a chute at 2 mph a jet will fly by at full speed.. like you said, jets have there places especially shallow rivers. thats why i got both prop and jet boats

 

[thudpucker]

I jumped logs in a Creek (Louisiana) with a 9.5 Johnson on a 12' Aluminum boat.
Logs are slick and kinda easy to rock the boat over center without destroying a prop.

Finding a Chute in Rocks is a very brave thing to be doing if your a long way from home.