Lithium Battery Question - 50AH LiFeP04 for a 55# thrust Minn Kota?

[Tin Man]

It took the battery about 12 hours to reach full charge. I connected it to my Riptide 55, and it DOES seem to have more kick. I guess having a higher resting voltage really is noticeable.

Can't wait to run this baby!

But something just occurred to me...

I need to hide this thing, so no one knows that it's lithium. I imagine that because they are so expensive, thieves would love to steal them. I think I'm going to make a tray for it under my front deck. I would be extremely upset if it disappeared at a gas station or while grabbing stuff from a store!

looking forward to reading your on the water results.....hours, speed, weight of boat, conditions...

 

[FuzzyGrub]

But something just occurred to me...

I need to hide this thing, so no one knows that it's lithium. I imagine that because they are so expensive, thieves would love to steal them. I think I'm going to make a tray for it under my front deck. I would be extremely upset if it disappeared at a gas station or while grabbing stuff from a store!

Might be part of the reason I see mfgs providing them in suitcases. Easy in and out.

 

[thill]

Now, THIS is interesting.... Dakota makes a LiFePO4 starting/dual purpose battery with an 11-year warranty. It's on sale right now for $1,189:

 

[airshot]

Keep in mind that part of that price is for the warranty...a big part !! Think about it...eleven years ?? If that battery really lasts more then 6-8 years I would be shocked !! So when people start making claims, the replacement costs gotta come from somewhere... Kinda like the auto parts stores...an alternator costs 150 bucks with a one year warranty, but the deluxe model is 250 bucks with a lifetime warranty....look closely, probably the same alternator but you have to pay for the longer warranty in case someone turns in a claim. It is called marketing...

 

[Ray Clark]

Keep in mind that part of that price is for the warranty...a big part !! Think about it...eleven years ?? If that battery really lasts more then 6-8 years I would be shocked !! So when people start making claims, the replacement costs gotta come from somewhere... Kinda like the auto parts stores...an alternator costs 150 bucks with a one year warranty, but the deluxe model is 250 bucks with a lifetime warranty....look closely, probably the same alternator but you have to pay for the longer warranty in case someone turns in a claim. It is called marketing...

The devil is in the details of the warranty.

The warranty for "Manufacturer Defect" is for 11 years.

The "guaranteed lifespan" of the battery is 6 years. From the Dakota website: "...Dakota Lithium advertises the minimum expected lifespan of 6 years, or roughly 2,000 recharge cycles at regular use – 4X the recharge cycles of lead acid batteries. 6 years is the guaranteed lifespan under this warranty per the terms above. Batteries that do not meet this guaranteed lifespan of 6 years will be repaired or replaced (warranty exclusions apply, see below). Batteries older than 6 years are still covered by the 11-year manufacture defect warranty per the terms listed above."

The full text of the "Fine Print" of Dakota's Warranty can be found in the 11-Year-Warranty-Policy-for-Dakota-Lithium-Batteries.pdf

The way I read this document is that if a Dakota Lithium battery loses the ability to hold a charge or just flat gets worn out past the six year point, there's no coverage. It's only covered to 11 years if there's a manufacturer defect.

Dakota has carefully worded their warranty to limit their risk on the batteries they sell.

 

[David Atkins]

I agree with both Airshot and Ray Clark, the devil is in the details (Warranty) from what I have learned reading many such warranties from different manufacturers is that they have or hire a team of legal experts to write their warranties to limit any risk, just common business and marketing strategy; but even so if a lithium battery lasts 6 years that's not such a bad investment for any boat owner, tight lines guys!

 

[Tin Ark]

The devil is in the details of the warranty.

The warranty for "Manufacturer Defect" is for 11 years.

The "guaranteed lifespan" of the battery is 6 years. From the Dakota website: "...Dakota Lithium advertises the minimum expected lifespan of 6 years, or roughly 2,000 recharge cycles at regular use – 4X the recharge cycles of lead acid batteries. 6 years is the guaranteed lifespan under this warranty per the terms above. Batteries that do not meet this guaranteed lifespan of 6 years will be repaired or replaced (warranty exclusions apply, see below). Batteries older than 6 years are still covered by the 11-year manufacture defect warranty per the terms listed above."

The full text of the "Fine Print" of Dakota's Warranty can be found in the 11-Year-Warranty-Policy-for-Dakota-Lithium-Batteries.pdf

The way I read this document is that if a Dakota Lithium battery loses the ability to hold a charge or just flat gets worn out past the six year point, there's no coverage. It's only covered to 11 years if there's a manufacturer defect.

Dakota has carefully worded their warranty to limit their risk on the batteries they sell.

They sure do. I use Miller Tech. 5 year warranty and they don’t hide behind a warranty. If you need a contact there send me a message.

 

[sonny.barile]

It’s not really the warranty bringing in that price. It’s the dual purpose that makes that Dakota 135 ah special. These other brands discussed here including the Vmax I bought can not crank a starter.

As a deep cycle the Dakota has all the updated features including battery heating for charging in below freezing temps.

The nearest competition is Relion with a group 31 100 amp dual purpose lithium (35 ah less capacity) and it comes with a 10 year warranty (1 year less) and no heater for cold weather charging @ $1159.

The Dakota looks like the better buy in that category.

I am not a fan of dual purpose unless you can also rope start your outboard in an emergency. That limits it to smaller outboard set ups.

 

[airshot]

Your still better off using two batteries, one for start and one for TM, no good reason not to !! At that price...it is easy!

 

[airshot]

The devil is in the details of the warranty.

The warranty for "Manufacturer Defect" is for 11 years.

The "guaranteed lifespan" of the battery is 6 years. From the Dakota website: "...Dakota Lithium advertises the minimum expected lifespan of 6 years, or roughly 2,000 recharge cycles at regular use – 4X the recharge cycles of lead acid batteries. 6 years is the guaranteed lifespan under this warranty per the terms above. Batteries that do not meet this guaranteed lifespan of 6 years will be repaired or replaced (warranty exclusions apply, see below). Batteries older than 6 years are still covered by the 11-year manufacture defect warranty per the terms listed above."

The full text of the "Fine Print" of Dakota's Warranty can be found in the 11-Year-Warranty-Policy-for-Dakota-Lithium-Batteries.pdf

The way I read this document is that if a Dakota Lithium battery loses the ability to hold a charge or just flat gets worn out past the six year point, there's no coverage. It's only covered to 11 years if there's a manufacturer defect.

Dakota has carefully worded their warranty to limit their risk on the batteries they sell.

The first sentence tells the whole story...the battery is designed to last 6 years.....add some extra bucks to the price tag in case they get anyone that goes beyond and wants a prorated discount. Prorating is a false warranty as the discount always comes off the current mfgr list price which is inflated to start with. Your actually paying for a six year warranty at a high price tag. Marketing at its finest!

 

[AlanT]

If you LifePO4 battery fails in 6 years you may be replacing it with a solid state battery. A great deal of marketing goes into warranties. BTW, once they introduce solid state batteries electric outboards may be a possibility. Toyota says they will have solid state batteries in 2025.

 

[Shootstraight]

That price is high compared to others! Ionic 125 duel 12v is $789. I use it on my Triton, it starts my 175 pro xs and my 12”, 9” HDS screens and Active Target. Warranty is very similar though, I believe the last few years of the eleven is just a discount on a new battery.

 

[thill]

Interesting about the warranty really only being 6 years. Kind of sneaky.

 

[thill]

Your still better off using two batteries, one for start and one for TM, no good reason not to !! At that price...it is easy!

Yes, it seems best to use a batteries to start and then a Lithium as a house or accessory battery, and for the trolling motor, of course.

FWIW, they make battery management systems to separate house and starting batteries, like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RZNP5K
I just installed one for a customer, and he says it works great.

I wonder if they have them for Lithium batteries?

 

[sonny.barile]

That price is high compared to others! Ionic 125 duel 12v is $789. I use it on my Triton, it starts my 175 pro xs and my 12”, 9” HDS screens and Active Target. Warranty is very similar though, I believe the last few years of the eleven is just a discount on a new battery.

I wasn’t aware of that one…….That’s a good buy.

 

[thill]

Your still better off using two batteries, one for start and one for TM, no good reason not to !! At that price...it is easy!

Actually, I just thought of one. If you have a small boat, and weight is a factor, having a single dual-purpose lithium battery might be the better option.

The earlier post asking about balancing a 1036 boat made me think of this.

 

[Shootstraight]

Actually, I just thought of one. If you have a small boat, and weight is a factor, having a single dual-purpose lithium battery might be the better option.

The earlier post asking about balancing a 1036 boat made me think of this.

That really depends on the screens you are using. Larger newer screens plus Active Target or Livescope would need to be on a separate battery. They will draw more than your trolling motor.

 

[airshot]

That really depends on the screens you are using. Larger newer screens plus Active Target or Livescope would need to be on a separate battery. They will draw more than your trolling motor.

Often wondered about that....I can remember years back running an old fish finder on a few flashlight batteries most of the day, now people want a seperate full size battery for there fish finders ! I figured all these new bells and whistles would require much more power....but as much as a TM....wow.

 

[thill]

That really depends on the screens you are using. Larger newer screens plus Active Target or Livescope would need to be on a separate battery. They will draw more than your trolling motor.

I have two 9" Garmins and a livescope unit, and they don't draw anything near what a trolling motor does.

I run them off a pair of 8 AH batteries wired to 24V, and I get about 6 hours use. Many guys use a 20AH Lithium battery and run all day.

A trolling motor would drain those little batteries very quickly, if it would even run one.

But maybe there are some super power-thirsty newer screens I don't know about? Which ones are you referring to?

 

[Shootstraight]

I have two 9" Garmins and a livescope unit, and they don't draw anything near what a trolling motor does.

I run them off a pair of 8 AH batteries wired to 24V, and I get about 6 hours use. Many guys use a 20AH Lithium battery and run all day.

A trolling motor would drain those little batteries very quickly, if it would even run one.

But maybe there are some super power-thirsty newer screens I don't know about? Which ones are you referring to?

I run Garmin 12” 126sv ultra and 9” 93sv uhd plus Livescope. I fished Tuesday and used both screens for over 5 hours. My TM is 12v Terrova, I’m not all electric so long runs up the lake are with gas motor. Screen battery was at 51% and TM battery 90%. I typically fish along shore on number 2 setting in constant. I’ll steer with remote or rear buttons on pedal. I did troll across lake a few times on high. Then on points I’ll use spotlock for up to an hour on one spot. I can save battery by putting big screen on rest mode if I’m not using it. Each have their own 50 Amp Ionic and I ck with the app ever so often to see where I’m at.