NEED HELP DECIDING ON 2 OUTBOARDS

[nowgrn4]

Whats the max the hulls rated for? Sell these two for top dollar and get the max with T&T. You will never have to run it hard and it will probably last forever.

My $.02.

 

[scoobeb]

I'm going to keep the 93 merc.It is just such a sweet outboard that i can't part with it.I am going to upgrade to the 25hp carb when i sell my other merc then just fly with that and in the future go with the 25hp suzuki.The boat is rated for a 35 and no one makes a 35 new anymore and a 30 would be pointless since the 25 would do just as good a job being a 2 stroke. I would put this 93 20hp when i install the 25hp carb against any non modified 25 and i bet it would smoke it.Mine is just a de tuned 25hp so it really wouldn't be modified because i'm running it as a 25hp then like it should be.I have ran 25hp yamaha's,suzuki's,tohatsu's,evinrude and johnson and for a non modified outboard there isn't a more powerful engine then these 25hp mercs.All the engines i mentioned are are great to and just as reliable,i'm talking just power vs power.I don't know what it is about these mercs but man they have some insane get up and wot.Could possibly be the 2.25 gear ratio which gives it more torque then any 25hp 2 stroke out there.
With me in the stern of the boat it takes a couple seconds to get on plane but i weigh near 300lbs,i get over 30mph with 1000+lbs in the boat.With my buddy in the back and he's 140lbs and with a 200lb middle seat person he gets on plane so fast he has to hold on to the seat or he will fly over the back,lol.He didn't believe how much torque this motor had and gps with him in the back and me off is over 32mph which is insane speeds on a jon boat.Now it could be a motor by motor basis on which is more powerful or not,could be the way it was broke in,could be so many different things why some of the same hp engines are more powerful then others.

 

[onthewater102]

The only difference between the 93 20hp and 25hp was the carb...it isn't like a Johnson/Evinrude where they had different intake plenums that needed to be swapped along & others that have different exhaust ports etc...mercury just built a 25hp and then slapped a restricted carb on it & lowered the WOT RPM rating (because it would be running too lean with the reduced fuel/oil supply from the smaller carb) and called it a 20hp.

Take your serial # and pull up the parts schematic on any website that uses OEM diagrams (marineengine.com, boats.net etc.) and you'll see what I'm talking about if you haven't already.

 

[Stumpalump]

..it isn't like a Johnson/Evinrude where they had different intake plenums that needed to be swapped along & others that have different exhaust ports etc...mercury just built a 25hp and then slapped a restricted carb on it & lowered the WOT RPM rating.

That's not all Mercury just slaps on. I hate them so bad I can't even bring myself to doing anything but speed reading a thread like this. I got to the word "slapped" and that summed it up for me. I had a 20 and a 25 merc.
They are the harbor freight tools of outboards. So may say more like a Lamborgini but do you know how much work and money it takes to keep a lambo running? I'd get rid of those yesterday.

 

[onthewater102]

I haven't had any issues with mine that I didn't cause (converting it from tiller to remote, putting it on a narrow & relatively heavy boat etc.) and mine's a 1984 early production of the 86-90 XD line.

I heard they had a reputation for being more of an old-timer/ grease-monkey motor - if you can adjust it as you need to you'll be fine but if you need to have it serviced for every little thing it'll get pricey quick. I haven't seen that with mine. I tuned it once (timing, carb etc.) when I swapped the 20hp carb to the 25hp and haven't had to monkey with it at all. I use it in the 95 degree heat of summer and in the dead of winter when it's 25 out before the ice comes. Starts quickly and effortlessly no matter what. I do adhere to the maintenance routine for it - perhaps people let theirs go & create problems for themselves, or maybe they play around with them thinking they know what they're doing and don't have the proper tooling or FSM to know the adjustments they need and they get a bad rep?

 

[scoobeb]

That's not all Mercury just slaps on. I hate them so bad I can't even bring myself to doing anything but speed reading a thread like this. I got to the word "slapped" and that summed it up for me. I had a 20 and a 25 merc.
They are the harbor freight tools of outboards. So may say more like a Lamborgini but do you know how much work and money it takes to keep a lambo running? I'd get rid of those yesterday.[/quote]



That couldn't be further from the truth. Those 25hp mercs or any merc I have ever owned has been down right bulletproof. If you had any issues then it's either from the last owners who obviously neglected the maintenance on them or if new wasn't taken care of properly. Saying they are harbor freight of outboards is lack of knowledge about mercs. Just because you or anyone has bad experiences with a particular manufacturer of outboards does not make them crap. I have had nothing but issues with johnson\evinrude outboards but that doesn't make them harbor freight of tools. I bet I will run this merc for the next 10 yrs no issues, just maintenance. Keep in mind it's also 24yr old so that just neglected your statement of harbor freight tools,lol. I have owned every major manufacturer of outboards and these older mercs are just the best for power,plus reliability is second to none. Any 2 stroke whether merc,Tohatsu, yamaha,etc... only needs spark,water,fuel and compression to run,other than that nothing else major usually goes wrong,key word is usually unless owner neglect that I see is the issue 90% of the time. Any outboard will usually run forever if properly taken care of.

 

[scoobeb]

Onthewater102,you just summed it up with one line,owner neglect and messing with things on the outboard when they have no idea what their doing. These mercs are so easy to fix a monkey could do 90% of any repairs with a book. Carb takes minutes to take off,water pump takes minutes, I did all my maintenance work to mine that I felt it needed for after 24yr and it cost less than $200 in parts. I redid anything that could get brittle or rot out from 24yr as it should be done. Other than that it runs like a brand new outboard. All I need now is the 25hp carb and fall time I'm going to repaint the whole motor because I want to get it looking in showroom condition. A little prep and some phantom black paint and she will look and run as good as ever.

 

[muddywaders]

Scoobeb I think you made a good choice.The 20/25 Mercury 2-stroke must be considered the best 25hp outboard of all-time.There are other motors in this weight range(120lbs) that make more power; the OMCs,Seapro/Tohatsu and Mariner/Yamaha cv 25/30hp but with more displacement.The Merc makes more hp per cubic inch than anything.The blind-bore design(no head gasket failures!)combined with a super tough lower unit and durable impeller has made it a favorite among duck hunters for decades.I have no doubt that if still available the 2-stroke would outsell the 20hp Tohatsu.There is a Suzuki dealer in my area and although their bigger motors have a good reputation nobody is buying the new 25/30hp despite the warranty.It could be the price tag or the fact its a relatively new design scaring people off.The new efi motor weighs the same as a 3cyl Yamaha 30hp 2-stroke a motor that will blow away the Honda,Tohatsu 30hp as well as Yamaha 4-strokes.If the new Zuke has as much torque as the 3cyl Yamaha and offers much better fuel economy it would be my first choice.Scoobeb I was hoping you would buy the new Suzuki so I could get a comparison.Please post the results of your carb swap. m.w.

 

[scoobeb]

I will absolutely let you know what kind of performance difference I see with the carb swap. The merc sea pro and Tohatsu and nissan are exactly the same engine made by Tohatsu and as you said way bigger CCs. I believe they are 440 CCs compared to the mercs 400CCs. I'm telling you my 93 merc is just insane with power and with just me in the back and my 75lb daughter today so near 800 lbs give or take a bit we hit 30mph with the 20hp carb never the less. I can't even imagine how much more torque and top end the 25hp carb will give us. Imo the torque alone is worth the switch.

Also I have owned the 25hp efi Suzuki but never ran it on the water because I sold it due to wanting the 20hp instead and it ran beautiful in my test tank,smooth as silk and it was just an amazing looking outboard, the technology was insane on it. Light to for a 3 cylinder outboard,136lbs.

 

[scoobeb]

I guarantee if I keep this merc it will outlive us and still be going strong especially the way I take care of it.

 

[scoobeb]

I got to tell you the longer I have this 25hp the more I'm getting pulled to it because it runs so darn good,but so does my 93. I can definitely tell that the 93 is a bit more worn then the 02 due to how tight everything is on the 02. The original bolts of the 02 were hard to get off because they have never been off ever,once off they went back a bit easier of course. That tells me the lower unit was never taken off. The thermostat bolts have never been removed as well. I just love the look of the 93 better plus I have to tell you there is a major difference in power between them,the 02 just due to it being a 25 has more torque for sure but at wot my 20hp with near 900lbs of weight it hits near 30mph the same as the 25hp so that tells me the 25hp carb for my 93 should do unbelievable wonders in both torque and wot speed. I get almost identical speeds with the 20 and 25hp with near 900lbs of weight which is mind boggling to say the least. I'm quite sure that when I switch the carbs out it will be a well worth it investment at least imo. Yes it will eat a bit more gas than the 20 carb but the power difference should be night and day.



I have to tell you also I'm using royal purple full synthetic tcw3 oil and please understand I am a die hard royal purple user in all my cars and everything and I'm not impressed with their marine oil at all,it smokes like a chimney when it's supposed to smoke almost nill according to their site. Now as far as lubrication I truly believe it's superior to Dino oils but I have 4 gallons of full synthetic tcw 3 Pennzoil and so far from my tests the Pennzoil is far better as far as smokes less and less money. I may just go back to the $12 super tech oil from Walmart if it's going to smoke the same and I know super tech oil is awesome stuff and it has never ever given me any issues for pre mix,in fact just the opposite, it mixes easy and lubricates awesome. I may switch over to amsoil oil at a later time or stick to the full synthetic pennzoil. Now lower unit oil I will stick to royal purple all the way because imo it's superior to all lower unit oils. You can't wash that stuff off your hands no matter what you do,that smell is there even after I wash my hands 5 times,it's got such a strong film that even if water got in my lower unit I would not be scared at all because that stuff is the best,again imo. I'm sure there is other great oils out there but for the little money when broke down I get 3-4 lower unit oil changes for $15 it is well worth it to me for peace of mind, that is only around $4 every 6 months and $8 a yr for peace of mind. Now I can understand if you have a 30hp it can get pricey but if you buy it by the 5 gallons then it's much cheaper. For me my 20hp takes like 10oz give or take a couple Oz so I get roughly 3 changes at $5 a change. Well worth it to me and I know my lower unit gears are protected. When I buy new I will as soon as I take it out of the box replace the factory stuff with the royal purple to. I want my gears fully protected from day one. I think once I use up the 6 gallons of oil I have,then I will evaluate either keeping this motor till I die or selling it for the 20 or 25hp suzuki.


I know I can sell this 93 for well over $2k as I had plenty of people wanting it the short time I had it on Craigslist, people went crazy for this outboard but I just couldn't unload it. I won't find one like this at least here in fl anytime soon again or ever if I wanted another in time. 25hp 2 stroke Yamaha are a dime a dozen here,20/25hp pristine merc 2 stroke is nearly impossible to find in this good of condition. Also when I see an ad that their motor is flawless, then u get there and it's a pos,my flawless and most everyone else's selling outboards is much different. To me pristine is like as new as you can get with like minor scratches or somewhat along those lines.

 

[scoobeb]

I think i'm going to take the 25hp to the lake later next week on my boat to see how it runs,unless it sells before then.