New Grizzly 1448 and '21 Merc 15hp Won't Plane?

[TimeBomb]

Hi all, new to the forums and after doing some searching and coming up with conflicting/inconclusive answers I figured I might as well just state my problem and see if I can get some advice.

Weekend before last I picked up a '19 Grizzly 1448 with a trailer and a '21 Merc 15 EFI longshaft outboard. I had originally spec'ed a 9.9 for the boat but after talking with the salesman he talked me up into a 15 to make sure the boat would still get on plane with two people in it. After my two hours of break-in I tried getting it up on plane, but no dice. It would set you back out of the gate, but hit about 9mph and never popped up. Messed around with weight balance, messed around with the trim, nothing. It seemed like I had run out of prop before the boat would get on plane, accelerating hard out of the hole and then just hitting a wall.

I went from the original 9p that came with the boat to an 11.5p as per the Mercury Prop Selector they have on the Mercury website. With both of us in the boat the motor would now just bog when it hit around 9mph. So I had my brother hop out, and tried again. Didn't seem to make any difference. I tried a few of the trim settings to see if I could get the nose to come up, and it seemed to help but still wouldn't get on plane.

The boat itself is pretty fat, around 540lbs or something? Plus a MinnKota 45lber, a battery in the front and rear, 6 gallon tank, 14lb anchor and winch, and some fishing stuff... I'm around 235 myself... The whole rig on the water certainly isn't light by any stretch but even after stopping back in to buy a different prop my salesman still seemed adamant that that boat would get on plane. Personally, I'm just not seeing it. I had talked about upgrading to a new 25hp Merc but was told the earliest they could get a 25 long shaft was end of September, early October.

SO: Here's my conundrum(s). Does anyone else here have the '14 Grizzly with the interior and a similar engine setup that actually planes out? I'm pretty irritated that I have, well, too much money wrapped up into a boat/motor package that can really only idle around and push a big wake, how much would you push for some sort of compensation toward a bigger engine package? Or should I chalk it up to my own ignorance? I was pretty sure that 9.9 wouldn't plane out and was reassured I would have no problems getting up on plane with a 15 even with two people in it. This is my first attempt at a well-sorted fishing rig and I'm pretty bummed out about the whole situation. Any prop recommendations? Trim adjustments? It is a 17.5" transom, should I try and bring the motor up some, or back some?

Thanks for any input you guys have, I appreciate any and all of it! (Even if it's to remind me that I'm just as dumb as I feel!)

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Dont feel dumb, I have been setting my boat up for over a year now and Im still not done.

With a 540lb boat and equipment youre looking at near or over 1000lbs on the water. IMO thats a lot of weight for a 15hp motor to plane.

The prop jump you took may have been to large, but the real question is how low below the bottom of the hull is your cavitation plate?

The motor being a long shaft could be part of the problem.


Is this similar to your boat?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXwDIOTqNEo

 

[maintenanceguy]

"long shaft" means different things to different manufacturers but to me a long shaft is 20-22 inches. What's the shaft length on your motor? A log shaft on a 17.5" transom seems a bit deep but I don't know the specs on either. If the prop is too deep, it will raise the bow and make it hard to get the stern up on plane.

You also say your motor bogs down. I understand that to mean that the motor is overloaded and won't get up to full RPM? That would be very strange and I would suspect a motor problem.

 

[CedarRiverScooter]

I would ask the sales person, who made the promise, why it isn't working like he said it would. Then get a good deal from him on a bigger motor. Even if you get it to plane, it will always be underpowered.

 

[Wallyc]

Bass pro is a pretty big company my store and my experience was very good with them and believe me I had to deal with them. With that said I would go back and talk to them and have them test it.maybe you have a bad motor.Then have your salesman explain why it won’t get on plane like they told you.it would. That would put you in a better position to bargain. IMHO I think that’s a pretty weak hp choice for those hulls . With that kind of load . That’s asking a lot. I’ve got a 1648 mvx 2019 model year same boat just a little longer and heavier. These hulls are heavy. Think my hull is pushing 600 lbs and we won’t talk about all the other crap in the boat. If it was me I would put a 25. Maxing out the hull always has made more sense to me. Unless your dealing with hp restricted lakes.
Good luck once you get past this you’ll love your new boat. I promise.

 

[MrGiggles]

That boat needs a short shaft motor.

You could use a jack plate, but that is going to make your weight distribution problem worse.

Best thing IMO would be to swap for a 25hp short shaft, but in the mean time, play with weight some more. In the 1448 that I used to have, simply moving the battery to the front was a night and day difference. Went from plowing at 8mph to cruising at 15.

 

[TimeBomb]

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

The boat in that youtube video is my hull, yeah. I ran one battery in the front and one battery in the rear, and have a couple other things in the boat he doesn't. And he had the right motor idea haha.

The reason I ended up not going with the short shaft (other than the salesman recommendation) is that all of the shortshafts were 15". This is a 17.5 transom with a pretty decent angle to it, I figure the straight-down measurement is around 18.5. My longshaft is a 20" which puts the cav plate 2" or so under the bottom of the boat static. It's hard to see how low the cav plate is below the water line with all of the trim settings I've tried and how much water I'm pushing back there haha. I could run a jackplate or make a straight riser for it as well, if that would help out. Just gotta find one I like.

I bought the setup from a local tackle/gun shop. They've been at least willing to communicate but they all seem a bit stumped that it won't hop up on plane.

Right now I think I'm just plain underpowered. I think I might be able to get that 15 horse to get up on plane with some weight movement, a prop between 9 and 11.5 pitch, and possibly rising that motor up an inch or two, and if I'm the only person in the boat. But since I bought the boat to run 2-3 people every time it's on the water I think it'd solve most of my headaches to just shell out a little more money for the 25hp. Either a shortshaft and set the motor back a few inches, or a longshaft and see if it might end up needing a riser. That 17.5" transom really causes some headaches. Like I said, there's quite a bit of an angle on that transom so it's likely longer horizontally to the water and that makes me concerned that a short shaft will cavitate back there unless you set it back.

It's all a bit of a head scratcher for me. I'm a car/bike guy, I've spent my life fishing from the bank. To be honest, I really don't even need it to get on plane, I enjoy trolling and watching my fishfinder to get from point A to point B. But I know once I have honey holes I want to go to RIGHT NOW, it's gonna be even more obnoxious to plow water all the way there than it already is. Not a fun predicament to be in after shelling out thousands for new gear supposedly "set up right" :lol: .

Again, thanks for all the help so far. I'm still all ears for any suggestions! We're bringing both props to the water tonight and going through every single trim and weight balance adjustment I have at my disposal and confirm 100% that I haven't missed something silly, and then Monday I'm bringing it to where I purchased it, and we're gonna have a long talk with Mr. Salesman until there's a 25 horse on the back I think.

 

[MrGiggles]

Thanks for all the input so far guys!

The boat in that youtube video is my hull, yeah. I ran one battery in the front and one battery in the rear, and have a couple other things in the boat he doesn't. And he had the right motor idea haha.

The reason I ended up not going with the short shaft (other than the salesman recommendation) is that all of the shortshafts were 15". This is a 17.5 transom with a pretty decent angle to it, I figure the straight-down measurement is around 18.5. My longshaft is a 20" which puts the cav plate 2" or so under the bottom of the boat static. It's hard to see how low the cav plate is below the water line with all of the trim settings I've tried and how much water I'm pushing back there haha. I could run a jackplate or make a straight riser for it as well, if that would help out. Just gotta find one I like.

I bought the setup from a local tackle/gun shop. They've been at least willing to communicate but they all seem a bit stumped that it won't hop up on plane.

Right now I think I'm just plain underpowered. I think I might be able to get that 15 horse to get up on plane with some weight movement, a prop between 9 and 11.5 pitch, and possibly rising that motor up an inch or two, and if I'm the only person in the boat. But since I bought the boat to run 2-3 people every time it's on the water I think it'd solve most of my headaches to just shell out a little more money for the 25hp. Either a shortshaft and set the motor back a few inches, or a longshaft and see if it might end up needing a riser. That 17.5" transom really causes some headaches. Like I said, there's quite a bit of an angle on that transom so it's likely longer horizontally to the water and that makes me concerned that a short shaft will cavitate back there unless you set it back.

It's all a bit of a head scratcher for me. I'm a car/bike guy, I've spent my life fishing from the bank. To be honest, I really don't even need it to get on plane, I enjoy trolling and watching my fishfinder to get from point A to point B. But I know once I have honey holes I want to go to RIGHT NOW, it's gonna be even more obnoxious to plow water all the way there than it already is. Not a fun predicament to be in after shelling out thousands for new gear supposedly "set up right" :lol: .

Again, thanks for all the help so far. I'm still all ears for any suggestions! We're bringing both props to the water tonight and going through every single trim and weight balance adjustment I have at my disposal and confirm 100% that I haven't missed something silly, and then Monday I'm bringing it to where I purchased it, and we're gonna have a long talk with Mr. Salesman until there's a 25 horse on the back I think.

The distance to the water should be less than what the transom measures. If you look at it as a right triangle, the hypotenuse (transom), is always longer than both opposite and adjacent sides.

 

[turbotodd]

motor is too deep hull is too heavy and motor is too small for the hull weight, which is TWO HUNDRED POUNDS heavier than mine is and I'm a foot or so longer.

Sounds like the salesman had a quota to meet and/or had some inventory to move. You were the "lucky" one.

 

[TimeBomb]

Mr. Giggles, you are correct and I am thinking too much. :roll: Transoms probably more like 16" vertically.

The shop I bought everything from does have two 2015 Mercury 25s in stock, an EH and an ELH. The short shaft is a touch cheaper, I'm supposed to hear back from the sales manager today on what they can do about swapping out the outboards. Also noticed yesterday that their install job is a little bonkers. They set the engine down on the transom and then bolted it through on the bottom hole. What good is having motor height adjustments if you can't use them... :?

TurboTodd, also correct. I'm starting to feel like I was just pushed out the door with whatever they could sell. That hull is SUPER heavy. It's awesome and I love it, but 540-ish lbs dry weight does not at all match well with using a motor that puts out half the power the hull is rated for.

If I had the money for it I almost wish that transom was rated at 35hp. I can't imagine it wouldn't handle it, but it seems with a boat so wide and heavy even 25hp seems like a low maximum rating.

You guys have all been a big help so far, I appreciate all of the input.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Something else you need to think about is its not how fast you can get to your fishing spot, but how fast you can get to the ramp when the lightening starts.

The wife unit kept wondering why I wanted to go faster, even if just a few MPH for a few pennies more (I build my own motors). Well today we got hit with a sneaky storm that formed over the river that sits adjacent to the lake we fish. It looked like nothing and she wanted to video the swans with their (swanlings?) and just having turned our backs for 5min all hell started breaking loose on the river.


I had the boat going flat out on calm water and every time the lightening hit in the distance she was waving me on to go faster to get at the ramp and get loaded.

Seems she forgot that getting to the ramp was only the first part of the battle, then you have to get loaded and off of the aluminum dock!

She now wants me to get the 35 on the boat and see what that does.


I also was thinking they sold you what they wanted to sell rather than selling you what you needed.

You will do fine with a 25 on that hull. Damn nice looking boat too.

 

[turbotodd]

GF and I had the same issue, 5 or 6 miles downstream of the ramp, storm blew in over the hills. Hills on both sides of the river so there really wasn't much warning, and phone service is nonexistent out there so no radar app. By the time I heard some thunder, it was too late. The bottom fell out, within seconds we were drenched and lightning was hitting the trees on the hills on both sides of the river while I was running upriver as fast as I could (27 mph). That was the only time I wish I'd have gotten a 21" transom and a 40hp motor. The boat (1548 war eagle) is rated for 40hp, but I already had a really nice short shaft 25 and decided to have the boat built with a 16" transom. Now, I'm not opposed to throwing a 40 on it, BUT, Yamaha does not make a short shaft 40hp outside of a jet, and I really don't "need" a jet but about once a year at the most. Besides, we're only talking about about 3-4 mph difference, for $5500. Not necessarily worth it. AND--that 40hp motor is going to be about 100 lbs heavier than the 25 I have on it now.

Question. Does the Grizzly 1448 have a flat bottom or is it a semi-vee?

 

[TimeBomb]

Question. Does the Grizzly 1448 have a flat bottom or is it a semi-vee?

The Grizzlies I believe are all Mod-V hulls. The 1448's are for sure.

 

[CedarRiverScooter]

Also been caught in storm. Good reason for spare power!

If lightening is happening, just tie off boat, get to car while it passes. Boat will dry out later.

 

[TimeBomb]

Was supposed to get a call back on Monday about trading my 15 in on a shortshaft 25. Finally called today to see what the holdup was.

They apparently cant trade outboards even if I pay the difference in cash because of the financing. Which is fine. Until I asked what the difference was, and apparently my 2021 outboard with 4 hours on it has depreciated $800... "Oh and those boltholes we drilled through the wrong way on your transom, we can certainly take care of that for you at no cost, we'd just need your boat back for about a week or so." Are you for real, you need it for a week to seal up two holes and drill new ones an inch higher? I paid them to put everything together, and they did it wrong. I'd hate to see what happens if they had to do it all over again for free. Wouldn't offer me any kind of discount on what I paid to have them prepare the boat, just fixing it for free, and that's not going to happen.

I was excited to find this place because they came highly recommended and have pretty good prices on everything from guns to boats to tackle. At this point I don't want to walk in the door ever again. Unbelievable.

I suppose I'm going to have to make a plate and move that motor up a few inches until I can just buy a 25 horse to put on the boat and sell the 15.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Wow, theirs so much wrong with this I dont know where to begin.

You may want to seek counsel to see what your options are.

 

[-CN-]

Was supposed to get a call back on Monday about trading my 15 in on a shortshaft 25. Finally called today to see what the holdup was.

They apparently cant trade outboards even if I pay the difference in cash because of the financing. Which is fine. Until I asked what the difference was, and apparently my 2021 outboard with 4 hours on it has depreciated $800... "Oh and those boltholes we drilled through the wrong way on your transom, we can certainly take care of that for you at no cost, we'd just need your boat back for about a week or so." Are you for real, you need it for a week to seal up two holes and drill new ones an inch higher? I paid them to put everything together, and they did it wrong. I'd hate to see what happens if they had to do it all over again for free. Wouldn't offer me any kind of discount on what I paid to have them prepare the boat, just fixing it for free, and that's not going to happen.

I was excited to find this place because they came highly recommended and have pretty good prices on everything from guns to boats to tackle. At this point I don't want to walk in the door ever again. Unbelievable.

I suppose I'm going to have to make a plate and move that motor up a few inches until I can just buy a 25 horse to put on the boat and sell the 15.

Whether you financed that engine or not, you can trade it in. Just don't do it at that incompetent dealer.

Not completely their fault that you went with a 15hp long shaft instead of a 15hp or 25hp short shaft. Should have done your homework.

Regardless, they have a duty to serve you properly. Seek legal counsel to be made whole on the raw deal you initially got.

 

[CedarRiverScooter]

I suppose I'm going to have to make a plate and move that motor up a few inches until I can just buy a 25 horse to put on the boat and sell the 15.

Best plan. It work good enough for the sting of the raw deal to go away.

 

[Pawatch]

Weird that Grizzly builds a 17.5" transom. I wonder what the reasoning for that is?
Hope you get things worked out.

 

[TimeBomb]

Weird that Grizzly builds a 17.5" transom. I wonder what the reasoning for that is?
Hope you get things worked out.

My oblivious professional assessment is that they made it 17.5" so that I would unknowingly make myself miserable and confused.

Can't uh... can't see any other reason. Maybe so I could have one more adult pop before accidentally tipping off the back of the boat?