Weak floor in 1860 G3 and a picture request

[AMG08]

I bought a 2004 G3 1860 CC last summer. While I like the boat, there are several things that I dont like about it. One of them being the floor. When walking around, the floor flexes. Im not a big guy either. Some of the pop rivets that hold the floor in seem loose, and when I let fresh water flow under the floor after a particularly rough day on salt water, I usually find a couple bucked pieces of pop rivets near the plug hole. The center console moves foward and aft if you push and pull the grab bar, because the floor is loose there.

How am I best going about fixing this? Do you think I will have to completely remove the floor? While I wouldnt mind doing that, Id prefer not to as there isnt a week that goes by where Im not either fishing or hunting out of the boat.

Also, does anyone have a picture of their unmodified interior of a G3 of similar length and close to a 2004 year model? The gentleman I bought the boat from had rod lockers intalled on each side and the front deck extended. While the lockers are nice, they are kind of a pain and in the way. Im thinking about removing the work he had done, but Id like to see a stock boat of a similar year before. Thanks.
Adam

 

[MrSimon]

Can you drill out the loose rivets and replace them?

 

[RiverBottomOutdoors]

Drill out the rivets and re-pop. The console the G3 is usually screwed down, so check to make sure you screws haven't backed out and/or wallowed out.

 

[surfman]

Sounds like it has seen some rough water, you need to go over all the fasteners and replace or tighten them if possible.

 

[AMG08]

Its seen some rough water by me, but the floor has been like that since Ive owned it. The console itself is screwed tight to the floor, but the floor underneath the console moves. I think Ill try finding the ribs and adding a few more pop rivets around there. I played with some rivets yesterday and theres a few that are able to move by spinning so Ill probably have to go to a bigger size I'd guess.

 

[mattwheaton]

It's quite possible that the rivets are corroding. I've heard and seen very silmilar things happening on on air frames.

 

[AMG08]

So I replaced most of the rivets around the console area. They weren't corroded but some were loose. Problem is that did not fix the problem. When I was taking the old rivets out I looked at the layers and the main floor is layered on top of a thinner floor. I didn't see where either layer was riveted to any ribs or support.

Has anyone taken out the floor of a G3 and have any advice on what I need to do? Im almost thinking that rivets under the baitwell in front of the console are broken or loose but the only way i could get to them is by removing the console completely.

 

[jigngrub]

It's time to do some serious work on your boat, you can piddle with it and leave the same decking in but it's not going to get any better... only worse.

It sounds like your boat has been "double decked" which always irritates me when I read about it or see it in pics. This is the laziest and most temporary of fixes for this problem.

The first layer of decking got wet and weak so someone just threw another layer of decking over it to firm it up, the problem is that the top layer of decking will suck water out of the bottom layer and you go right back to the original problem quickly.

To make your boat right, safe, and seaworthy you need to remove all of the decking and install new decking. You'll more than likely find that your floatation foam is water logged and contributing to the problem because the decking lays directly on top of the wet foam. You'll need to replace the foam too.

The majority of boat manufacturers use the foam to support thin 1/2" decking. If the boat isn't shown the proper care and storage and water is allowed to accumulate and remain in the bilge the foam will saturate over a period of years, this will cause the boat to lose buoyancy should it become flooded (it'll sink to the bottom) and will cause the decking to rot through absorption. It's not the foams fault, it's the owners fault for neglecting the boat.

When you replace your foam use the 4 lb. density 2 part expanding urethane foam, it twice as dense as the 2 lb. that came in your boat from the factory and therefore twice as water resistant... or use the extruded polystyrene rigid sheet foam insulation like the pink board they sell at Home Depot.

When you replace your decking use a good grade of 3/4" exterior grade plywood like ABX or BCX sealed with epoxy resin on both sides and all the edges, use multiple coats (3 or 4).

When choosing a deck finish, don't use carpet. Carpet absorbs and retains water like a sponge. Use a water shedding finish like marine vinyl or a non-slip paint on product like Durabak marine coating.

 

[AMG08]

Thanks, but there the floor is all aluminum, appearing to be 2 layers. If there is any wood, its not anywhere I can find, and Ive replaced floor rivets from front to back.

 

[jigngrub]

AMG08 » Yesterday, 20:16[/url]"]Thanks, but there the floor is all aluminum, appearing to be 2 layers. If there is any wood, its not anywhere I can find, and Ive replaced floor rivets from front to back.

I find concerns with that situation also.

I suspect your boat has undergone a crappy modification. Boat manufacturers don't use double layers of aluminum for decking, they'll use one piece thick enough to support the load and accessories on the deck... and the manufacturer would've installed additional framing under the decking so the console could be securely fastened instead of relying on just the decking and rivets to hold it.

Does your boat look like this:
https://www.g3boats.com/gator_tough_deluxe_1860_sc_cc_-_aluminum_jon_boats

I looked at the different models of G3 and some state that they're all aluminum and others don't, the 1860 doesn't say it's all aluminum. I suspect your boat had a wood deck from the factory that would hold and support the console and wouldn't feel weak under foot, but your PO had it removed and replaced with aluminum during his crappy modification with the rod lockers and extended deck.

I also suspect that your decking and console were installed with weak open end blind (pop) rivets instead of the much stronger closed end blind rivets and that's why you're having problems with loose and broken rivets.

I suggest removing the thin decking and go with a heavier gauge decking if you want to stay with aluminum, .125 ga. plate grade aluminum should work ok. You should also install additional framing under the decking to fasten the console to. Install your decking and console with closed end blind rivets for strength.

... or you can go with a 3/4" plywood deck that will be much cheaper and very strong.

 

[bassboy1]

There's a lot of 'suspecting' going on, and I 'suspect' that the suspects haven't ever been around that particular model of boat.... :lol:

That said, the 1860 G3 center console does and did come with a factory (flimsy) aluminum lower deck. The fact that they don't mention all aluminum construction is because they used wood in the transom, and underneath the bow cap (trolling motor mounting surface). The boat most definitely never had a plywood deck. Also,

Is your boat of the vintage that had the diamond plate lower deck, with the molded plastic center console? If so, my experience with those is that the decks are flimsy as all get out. The boat will have the same pressed rib extrusions that the other jons have, but putting the deck on top of that would cause it to slope towards the center, and wouldn't leave a channel for the support cables. Instead, they build up for a flat deck, with an area below for controls and livewell plumbing.

How many places did you pull rivets? I think what you are seeing the lower level of the 'double deck' is actually support structure - what little there is. Most of the time the support structures on those boats are simply brake formed sheet, so when you drill through, it looks like you are hitting a second full layer of sheet, but what you are actually hitting is the support structure flange.

I don't have any photos of the area under that deck, so I can't show 'exactly' what the support layout looks like. But, if you start following lines of rivets with a sharpie, you will probably start to see the pattern.

The problem is that (again, with 2004, I'm assuming the diamond plate deck), the deck sheet is too thin, and the supports to infrequent. Also, the console actually isn't screwed through to structure, but instead just to the deck. Jigngrub said the manufacture would've. I'll correct that to should've, as there is no reason not to, but G3 (and many others) don't always do things right.

Every time you walk around on it, and it flexes, it is slowly stretching the rivets, and they'll start to break. Then, when they break free, your console can now flop with the loose deck, as there is nothing tying the console to anything substantial below. G3s aren't the only brand that have this problem.

The only 'right' way to do it is to pull the console and all the deck sheets, improve the structure below, and reinstall a slightly more substantial deck sheet. Frankly, I don't recommend that. The expense to gain ratio is too wrong unless it really bugs you. Go with a stouter rivet - stainless even, and install with slightly more frequency than the original spacings. Will still flex, but hopefully will go a longer time before the rivets let go.

 

[jigngrub]

bassboy1 » Today, 17:21[/url]"]There's a lot of 'suspecting' going on, and I 'suspect' that the suspects haven't ever been around that particular model of boat.... :lol:

That said, the 1860 G3 center console does and did come with a factory (flimsy) aluminum lower deck. The fact that they don't mention all aluminum construction is because they used wood in the transom, and underneath the bow cap (trolling motor mounting surface). The boat most definitely never had a plywood deck. Also,

Is your boat of the vintage that had the diamond plate lower deck, with the molded plastic center console? If so, my experience with those is that the decks are flimsy as all get out. The boat will have the same pressed rib extrusions that the other jons have, but putting the deck on top of that would cause it to slope towards the center, and wouldn't leave a channel for the support cables. Instead, they build up for a flat deck, with an area below for controls and livewell plumbing.

How many places did you pull rivets? I think what you are seeing the lower level of the 'double deck' is actually support structure - what little there is. Most of the time the support structures on those boats are simply brake formed sheet, so when you drill through, it looks like you are hitting a second full layer of sheet, but what you are actually hitting is the support structure flange.

I don't have any photos of the area under that deck, so I can't show 'exactly' what the support layout looks like. But, if you start following lines of rivets with a sharpie, you will probably start to see the pattern.

The problem is that (again, with 2004, I'm assuming the diamond plate deck), the deck sheet is too thin, and the supports to infrequent. Also, the console actually isn't screwed through to structure, but instead just to the deck. Jigngrub said the manufacture would've. I'll correct that to should've, as there is no reason not to, but G3 (and many others) don't always do things right.

Every time you walk around on it, and it flexes, it is slowly stretching the rivets, and they'll start to break. Then, when they break free, your console can now flop with the loose deck, as there is nothing tying the console to anything substantial below. G3s aren't the only brand that have this problem.

The only 'right' way to do it is to pull the console and all the deck sheets, improve the structure below, and reinstall a slightly more substantial deck sheet. Frankly, I don't recommend that. The expense to gain ratio is too wrong unless it really bugs you. Go with a stouter rivet - stainless even, and install with slightly more frequency than the original spacings. Will still flex, but hopefully will go a longer time before the rivets let go.

Well I must admit, I never suspected a manufacturer would throw such a crappy build into a boat like that.

What do you guess-timate the expense for your suggested fix would be in $$$?

 

[bassboy1]

Well I must admit, I never suspected a manufacturer would throw such a crappy build into a boat like that.

It's pathetic, isn't it? The thing is, all of the production boat manufacturers are guilty of it. Not necessarily the console issue, each brand seems to choose their own shortcuts. And, 9 times out of 10, it's an interior fit and finish issue. These companies will build a very solid hull, but then slack out on the interior bits - decks, consoles, hatch lids, etc. Just depends on which boat company you choose as to which shortcut you'll find.

I could go on and on about all the shortcuts I find on different boats, but I'll spare the details.

What do you guess-timate the expense for your suggested fix would be in $$$?

I don't like posting prices on the open boards, but I will elaborate a little bit. Basically, if this job came to me, I'd really want the owner to have removed all the 'in the way' stuff first. Just disconnecting the control cables, wiring, livewell plumbing, etc adds up to a fair amount of time, which would quickly raise the price. But, if one brought by a boat with everything removed, it really wouldn't be too big of a hassle, and as a result, not really all that bad money-wise.

At that point, it would simply be a matter of removing any welded in structure attempts that are there, and fabricating the new. I'd hold the decision on lateral vs. longitudinal until after I see the boat apart, but if I had to guess with what we can see and know right now, I'd likely opt for the longitudinal, supplementing with lateral supports in key places (such as, where the console mounts). This portion should go fairly quickly - the port and starboard side would be mirror images of each other, and while the dimensions would alter as you went to or from the center of the boat, the overall shapes would be the same. Most of the pieces would be prefabbed outside the boat, then all attached down at one time. Then, the lateral pieces would have to be fitted one by one to the new longitudinals, but overall not that time consuming.

At that point, it would just be a matter of cutting and installing the new piece of .125 deck sheet. Easy peasy on those boats. It's roughly a rectangle, with some minor trimming and adjusting. Then, the owner gets to spend a fair amount of time reconnecting all the fiddly bits that had been disconnected previously.

I'm not going to post dollar amounts, but if the owner was able to disconnect and reconnect all the stuff that's in the way, the actual job price for the metal work really wouldn't be all that high in comparison to the value of the hull. The cost skyrockets when you have to pay shop rate for all the dismantling.

 

[jigngrub]

bassboy1 » Today, 00:22[/url]


I don't like posting prices on the open boards,

I'm not going to post dollar amounts,

Well, since this is mainly a DIY forum and the OP probably doesn't live anywhere near you and will be fixing it himself... I was talking material cost only and if it was your own personal boat. How much money do you think you'd have to spend on it to fix it right buying everything at retail cost like the OP would have to do to fix it himself?

 

[jigngrub]

BTW AMG08, what is the length and width of your bottom deck?

Can you post a pic of the inside of your boat?

 

[AMG08]

Bassboy is right on the money with the design of my floor and that its the diamondplate material. I will try to post pics when I get back in town. If I'm going to do this, ill probably move the console as far forward as I can as well. Any negatives on that? I sure would appreciate the extra room on the back deck for trolling

 

[jigngrub]

AMG08 » 2 minutes ago[/url]"]Bassboy is right on the money with the design of my floor and that its the diamondplate material. I will try to post pics when I get back in town. If I'm going to do this, ill probably move the console as far forward as I can as well. Any negatives on that? I sure would appreciate the extra room on the back deck for trolling

There probably won't be much (if any at all) slack in your steering cable to move the console forward.