Wet Foam, How Do You Tell.

[driz]

I picked up a 85 Tournament V17 last year with a nice 50 hp 4cyl 1983 Merc on trailer for $800. I plan on going through it but am not going to go hog wild tearing things apart, just the needed stuff. Anyways I used it a for a while last summer and it fishes fine. Lot's of smoke from the old 50/1 in the gas mix but then it won't fail and trash the engine either.
I did notice it seemed to go around 25MPH top end which seems a bit slow for a 50 on an aluminum boat but then it does have those hugely thick decks. the chairs mount on. It still seems Heavy. The PO has 4 bladed prop and a Stingray foil on it. I took the stingray off and the boat behaved pretty squirrelly. Stands right on its' tail unless trimmed full down and you just can't trim it up or it immediately rises way uncomfortably high. With the foil back on it's manageable for my use but I still wonder about the foam. Pulling the boat onto the trailer the little **** is almost as hard to lift up and pull forward as my big 23' Bayliner cuddy.
It has another weird bad habit water coming over the back right into the boat. I mean a lot of it. The boat always tosses a fine blade of water off the drivers side. It looks like the bow wave of one of those old WW2 Destroyers going full out. Just a fine clear blade of water that contacts the rear lift handle, all 1/4" of it and sprays it in the boat. I'm talking a lot of water. In 3 miles flat out I had enough back there that there was probably 35 to 50 gallons in there to pump out. Weird. It just flops over the side onto the edge of the rear platform and runs down the side into the bilge. But that's how it is. There is a small dent on that side by the seat but a couple pros looked at it and said no way it would do that, it's above the blister anyways.
This spring it gets some fix up. This just keeps coming back to weight. So with that and the infamous foam in mind where is the best place to probe around to see what's wet and whats not on a V17? I assume the back will be the major culprit. Just how do you tell, pulling out the drywell or plastic compartments and sticking a finger down into the foam I assume?
I also find the low console and windscreen somewhat useless. It seems a simple job to just put in a spacer piece on the top of the upright and raise it a foot or so Not super high but enough that I don't have to sit stooped over like Magilla Gorilla in that cramped seating position, I'm 6'1"
I have all the ninja skills, carpentry, wrench, painting, welding and the gear to do it I just want to know if I am barking up wrong trees in places or not before I start tearing things out. Ideas, criticisms welcome

 

[RustyGoat]

One of my friends has an old junk boat that we took a pedestal seat base out of awhile back. After removing the base we could see standing water under it. Any seat bases or something similar to remove and give a view of what's under the deck?

 

[warefishin]

Find where the foam is in your boat and stick a wooden stick like a skewer or something and put it in and give it a couple of minutes and pull it out and see if its wet.

 

[WVfishnfool]

I assume you're talking about a Bass Tracker boat if so I can guarantee you all the foam in the floor under the decking is soaked due to the fact that they just poured the stuff in at the factory and it plugs up all the places where water should drain back to the bilge. Then if the boat has sat outside uncovered a lot of water seeps in around and down the sides and eventually gets into the foam that way. Also if any previous owner left it outside in bad weather and didn't have the boat tilted to drain not to mention forgetting to remove the drain plug the foam will suck up water when left in the boat. Add a water logged and rotten transom along with water logged flooring and your boat is already exceeding the load limit before you add yourself or any gear. A 4 blade prop also is made for power more so than speed. 3 Blade will gain speed but until you find out whether your boat is water logged or not I wouldn't go changing props or anything else just yet. As far as water squirting up over the back is your transducer mounting possibly causing this? One way to find out is have someone you trust drive the boat while you hang over the back and check or mount a go pro camera or such back there to see what's going on. Reason I know about Trackers and there crappy way of building a boat is I have a 1989 Tracker Pro 17 that's completely gutted sitting in my garage right now. I took some pics when I disassembled it I'll see if I can locate them and post them up.

 

[Ranchero50]

Ditto, it's pretty much a given that you're foam is water logged. There's nothing you can do to make it better except remove it.

 

[rscottp]

Ranchero50 » 29 Jan 2014, 14:01[/url]"]Ditto, it's pretty much a given that you're foam is water logged. There's nothing you can do to make it better except remove it.

Yep! Old foam=waterlogged foam!

 

[jigngrub]

driz » Yesterday, 18:39[/url]"] I did notice it seemed to go around 25MPH top end which seems a bit slow for a 50 on an aluminum boat but then it does have those hugely thick decks. the chairs mount on. It still seems Heavy. The PO has 4 bladed prop and a Stingray foil on it. I took the stingray off and the boat behaved pretty squirrelly. Stands right on its' tail unless trimmed full down and you just can't trim it up or it immediately rises way uncomfortably high. With the foil back on it's manageable for my use but I still wonder about the foam. Pulling the boat onto the trailer the little s**t is almost as hard to lift up and pull forward as my big 23' Bayliner cuddy.
It has another weird bad habit water coming over the back right into the boat. I mean a lot of it.

All symptoms of water intrusion and saturation.

Your decking is hugely thick because it's water saturated and swollen... remove and replace it.

Your boat is heavy, slow, and handles badly because it has saturated foam along with the saturated decking... remove and replace it.

After you remove the several hundred pounds of wet wood and foam and replace it with light, dry, and new material you'll be amazed at how quick, light, and nimble your boat will be.

 

[driz]

:twisted:

Ahh good to know. I am sure the water blade business is coming from up front, the sender is on the transom. It comes from right next to the seat out and up then curves over to just like some surfer "in the pipe" I swear. I did pull the pedistal mounts to replace the bushings. That's where I noticed the extra thick deck. Still it looks to be oem but very thick. I'll measure it when the ice and snow are gone but it's sure solid, no standard soft spots anywhere. Nearly all the stainless bolts broke off when I pulled them even with heavy PB Blaster and sitting and they were all slightly , almost recessed into the wood just a tad, say 16 of "
I assume you guys are right about the foam. The PO left it sitting at a dock on the st lawrence all summer for years and it had the scum line to prove it. There was an awful lot of black sooty grunge in the bilge too. Not too sure about that but definitely not right. Who knows , maby it sunk at the dock a while back which would explain the 83 merc on a 85 boat .
So exactly how is the decking held screwed on anyways so I can start my planning. I definitely plan on raising that low slung tiny cockpit pedistal at least a foot just to actually sit right and keep out of the weather. I'm spoiled you see. My big boat has the full windshield and I have kept to leaving the canvas top on all year. Pretty nice when you are in rotten weather. Funny I can get under that big 23' 3000' boat on the trailer get under it and lift the bow enough to guide it onto the trailer when it needs it. That damned Tracker I hardly can budge which explains a lot along with the Stingray foil and the unusual 4 blade prop. Can't complain though. For $800 and an easily piece welded trailer and perfect motor it's well worth it to me.
I would like to get my hands on any pix you guys have involving this type / model. I can do almost anything but hate reinventing the wheel. Thanks for the advice.

 

[jigngrub]

driz » Today, 04:14[/url]"]
That's where I noticed the extra thick deck. Still it looks to be oem but very thick. I'll measure it when the ice and snow are gone but it's sure solid, no standard soft spots anywhere.

So exactly how is the decking held screwed on anyways so I can start my planning.

You may have 2 layers of decking on that boat, some lazy people think it's easier to just rip the carpet off and throw new decking down over the original soft decking and then lay carpet over that. this will make the deck feel solid again, but it adds a lot more weight to the boat, especially when the new decking becomes saturated.

OEM build for these boats makes them very simple to disassemble. All of the wood is wrapped with carpet and then screwed to the framing in the boat and all you have to do is find the screws and back them out to remove the pieces.

I've taken my Tracker deep V apart a couple of times:



If your boat has been recarpeted by a previous owner, there's a chance they screwed the decking down and then installed the carpet over the screws (stupid). This means all the carpeting will need to be pulled up to access the screws... and the screw heads will be covered with carpet glue (idiotic) and you'll have to scrape or sand off the glue to find the screws (much more work than it should be).

 

[driz]

jigngrub » 30 Jan 2014, 14:10[/url]"]

driz » Today, 04:14[/url]"]
That's where I noticed the extra thick deck. Still it looks to be oem but very thick. I'll measure it when the ice and snow are gone but it's sure solid, no standard soft spots anywhere.

So exactly how is the decking held screwed on anyways so I can start my planning.

You may have 2 layers of decking on that boat, some lazy people think it's easier to just rip the carpet off and throw new decking down over the original soft decking and then lay carpet over that. this will make the deck feel solid again, but it adds a lot more weight to the boat, especially when the new decking becomes saturated.

OEM build for these boats makes them very simple to disassemble. All of the wood is wrapped with carpet and then screwed to the framing in the boat and all you have to do is find the screws and back them out to remove the pieces.

I've taken my Tracker deep V apart a couple of times:



If your boat has been recarpeted by a previous owner, there's a chance they screwed the decking down and then installed the carpet over the screws (stupid). This means all the carpeting will need to be pulled up to access the screws... and the screw heads will be covered with carpet glue (idiotic) and you'll have to scrape or sand off the glue to find the screws (much more work than it should be).

Damn, You probably nailed it with the deck over deck comment. My carpet is completely worn but intact yet that deck under the front pedestal is freakishly thick by my thinking. The whole floor is rock solid though in spite of it which also points to a double floor. Those new stainless bolts I used for the front pedestal were 2 1/2'" LONG TO GET A WASHER AND LOCK NUT ON WITH VERY LITTLE STICKING OUT. That's one monster deck but of course I could see the top and bottom but not the side view. It all makes sense now.
the deck screws seem to be old stainless with those stainless upholstery washers and some that are surely hidden away. That also looks like someone did part of the job and left the rest or added part of it after. I'll post a couple pix in 2 months when it is unburied from the snowbank. Thanks.

 

[driz]

I just got around to taking the mid deck and steering station off. I found those short rectangular pieces they use to keep the foam from getting into the bilge bottom to be wet. Aside from that that crap is dry as a popcorn fart. I took a couple cores down low and all the way to the aluminum using an aluminum pipe section and it was all dry in the center section of the boat. The deck plywood was just a little soft on the edges but otherwise fine too. It will get new but there was nothing really wrong with it. Otherwise the bottom of that boat is perfect.
Tomorrow I will drill out the rivets and pull one of the storage boxes so I can sample what things are like further back. If anywhere that's where the foam should be rotten.
One thing for sure there won't be any more carpet going into any boat's floor that I ever own. [-X [-X That crap is just plain NASTY for catching and holding sand and water. So what's out there that guys are using that has enough texture to use on those flat surfaces. I am entertaining blowing on some pickup bed liner. Has anyone seen one done with that stuff or is there something better out there.

 

[Rat]

Yep, there's probably 500 different options for non-skid flooring!

Just start searching in some of the builds, you will find one you like.

 

[driz]

Wow, I didn't know that there were so many options. Whatever it is the stuff will have to be thick so it will cover and blend those edges that were designed to be under the carpet ( rear deck). Thanks. I started a thread on my teardown process a short while ago. It's gonna get interesting. Luckily I have some practice tin knocking on aircraft and lots of body work experience. The big issue is going to be finding out why that boat handles so badly. Nothing staring me in the face as yet really.

 

[driz]

I tore out all the rear decking right forward to the front of the drywell and all just to pull one of those silly side panels they filled with foam. The strange part was that after drilling out at least 50 rivets and half as many screws (because they are all interlaced) I tested the bottom of the foam and it's dead dry. The stuff on the bottom that's black is meaningless as it's just the exposed outside. So after all that at least now I know I'll pressure wash the bottom of the hull and get the crud out but that's it.
Note to shttps://www.tinboats.net/forum/posting.php?mode=reply&f=3&t=33116#elf and others to follow. Be careful testing foam for waterlogged if you push a pipe through one of those sprue holes they use to fill it [-X [-X . They don't put a plate over them so they get wet but it's just wet right there. If you shove a stick down and pull it out chances are it will show wet even though the foam is fine. Yea, pinheads could have tossed a couple tiny covers over those holes now couldn't they?
After that coming nothing I'll be a full day putting the decking, panels and all those darned rivets back in #-o and it was all for nothing. What a pain for nuthin. If I had it to do again I would just take a 3" hole saw or similar and cut a few inspection covers in the side panels back there and take samples then put cover plates on, but I was so sure it was wet, KICK ME :roll:

 

[Kismet]

If you didn't check, you wouldn't know for sure.

Now, figure out why it is filling itself up with water.

have fun.

 

[BigTerp]

Just in case your still considering non-skid options, here is what I used:

https://www.softsandrubber.com/aspergrit.html

It it pretty nice stuff. I use my boat year round. Fishing in the warmer months, and waterfowl hunting throughout fall and winter. The asper grit is a great non-skid even with muddy/wet chest waders on, yet not terribly rough on bare feet.

 

[driz]

This is the foam once I finally got to it. Wow what a mess. To get to that block just to check it really was a horror. It took pulling all those panels just to remove the long one and when it was done I had to pry it of the foam using a flat spade shovel. Pulling that stuff is where one of those 2" wide flat pry bars comes in very handy. Now for a couple days cleaning up the remaining paint. Definitely have to paint them in place though. The way they have them in there they are a compression fit, slightly over sized, strange. Here's the pics of the mess.

 

[driz]

A year later and having finished my barn project I'm back at it. I filled the old beast up to past the joint where the upper and lower part of hull join to check for leaks. Surprisingly I only saw 2 that were just slightly wet on the bottom.after a half hour. I'll buck those with a couple of 2lb hammers and put a smear of 5200 on the inside before buttoning it up.
One other thing I noticed was how those big gobs of foam they used manage to keep the water blocked up above the bilge. With that in mind and the fact that it just looked brown and nasty I pulled a piece out, more like broke one off midships. I wouldn't really call it soaked although the bottom sure was down towards the bilge. The fluffy stuff in the middle sure seemed heavy though if you compare it to any other sort of foam I ever handled.
So out it will come. After cutting out the deck sections and sanding them I decided to have a quick stab at foam removal with a flat pry bar. Wow that crap is like glue :shock: . Then I though of the pressure washer. 2500 PSI on that tiny needle tip =D> did real nice for slicing along the edges of the stringers and sectioning each block in 4 pieces. Too bad it wasn't so successful at removing the glue and black gunk left where I had just pulled the last of the carpet That's where I ran out of daylight and called it a day.
LESSON LEARNED: When you cut deck parts using the originals as a template BE CAREFUL. The other guy likely wasn't as good a carpenter as even me. Do those measurements yourself before cutting based on that handy template! [-X It's easier to cut it a bit large and cope it in with your M 1-A1 belt sander than shoot for perfection in the cut. You will get a much tighter solid fit as well. Once I get them mounted they are going to get the edges sealed right to the hull along the sides with 5200. Looking at the old pieces it's the edges that deteriorate and not much else. It makes sense. The water flows to and down the edges and gets onto the end grain right were it's the most vulnerable and then stays there to soak in . That wonderful carpet :evil: surely makes it all so much worse. I'll post a few pics later

 

[DaleH]

Just so you know ... you have NO IDEA if you have the wrong prop unless you know the MAX RPMs of OB and have tested with a tach. You want to be NO MORE than 200 RPMs off the stated max.