When it hits the fan - solar or generator?

[wasilvers]

Maybe it's from watching too much Walking Dead, but I've been on this kick lately about survivalists, prepping for the worst, etc. I realize that it may never happen, but (staying out of politics) our country is pretty far in the crapper and being an accountant, I can't see the consumer/service industry like our country has now surviving for much longer. SO, that out of the way, what are your thoughts on solar power/inverters vs using generators? I did some calcs with just my water distiller in mind. I figure I could get away with one inverter, and 4 batteries and one solar panel to start, but for when it hits the fan, I want some reduncancies, so 2 stackable inverters (combined for 3000W - 6000W peak) seem like the cat's meow. Here's what it looks like I'd need for solar power:

• 1500W Inverter $235.00
• +1500 W stackable $235.00
• Batteries (4) $320.00
• Have 2 boat Batteries $(160.00)
• Solar Panels (300 Watt) (2) $1,000.00 - made in Milwaukee
• Charge Controllers (2) $270.00
• Total Cost $1,900.00

All this to run 1000 watts for 4 hours a day and charge up in 8 hours time.

OR I could go and buy a Generac 3250 Generator (made in Wisconsin) for about $450. It would provide 1500 watts for 9 hours and is rechargable right away with gasoline.

NOW the kicker... will gasoline be available in a really bad situation? If so, will it cost my firstborn child? I did a one year cost of running these scenarios and gas comes out to $3193 for a year (at $5 a gallon) - Solar power would be free provided the sun shone.

I really want 3 things here, (1) a current way to run my sump pump should power go out and (2)a way to run electonics when camping/hunting off the grid. Also (3) I want to have a system in place should we loose power long term (ie terrorist attack or societal breakdown) to purify water, run some lights, etc. It has to be portable (I have a plan for solar panel mounts)

Do you guys have any thoughts - suggestions on what you'd do? Am I missing something obvious?

 

[wasilvers]

Actually I want a 4th thing - a way to charge my boat batteries so I can fish in the apocalypse :LOL2: :LOL2:

 

[muffin]

you ever go on survivalistboards.com ? they have a lot of discussion on that subject there

 

[muffin]

as far as gas - if we lose oil production, gas will last a few months tops, maybe longer if treated, but how long can u expect that to go?

 

[DocWatson]

If things get that bad, gas will simply not be available once the supply at your local stations runs out. Business and the infra structure will not function and we will have to turn to a blackmarket for most "luxury" items like gas and food.

I'd look into solar and wind options for current and future backup. They should sufice for "survival" in the event that it hits the fan, but nothing more. And portable solar.... forget that one !!! The batteries alone would make it weight prohibitive or inefficient at best. IMHO, of course. No real science or facts to back this up.

 

[wasilvers]

If things get that bad, gas will simply not be available once the supply at your local stations runs out. Business and the infra structure will not function and we will have to turn to a blackmarket for most "luxury" items like gas and food.

I'd look into solar and wind options for current and future backup. They should sufice for "survival" in the event that it hits the fan, but nothing more. And portable solar.... forget that one !!! The batteries alone would make it weight prohibitive or inefficient at best. IMHO, of course. No real science or facts to back this up.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. But on "portable solar"... I'm thining automobile portable, not a cart. I have an AWD van that can haul alot. At first thought, I'd mount the solar panels to the roof on a tiltable mount. Then I'd have a built in generator (van) on cloudy days. Should it hit the fan, I could mount it up, strap some gear on the roof rack, load up the family, food, ammo and a case of Dr Pepper and head for high ground. I really hope it would never come to that.

Also with solar, I could mount the panels on the roof, the rest of the kit could be protected from theives by being inside my house/van - unlike a generator which makes noise and tells the 'bad guys' right where electricity can be had. I was in the middle of a few hurricanes and know how crazy it can be when the power is out for a few days. People just become irrational stealing everything that isn't nailed down. I swear as soon as the generators sell out, the next thing to go are bolt cutters.

I did read some survival boards this weekend, but those guys scare me I would never want to meet up with any of them. They seem half off their rockers and most talk about taking everyone elses preparations.

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

I remember seeing pictures of Bosnia during the war. They were using water wheels to turn automotive alternators.

 

[200racing]

remember K.I.S.S. your plan requires multiple electric devices to function, too many weak links for me. if caught off gaurd a simple storm could wipe you out.

a wood fire moonshine still is much more simple and reliable. it would meet your water needs and make hooch as well which could be handy in many ways.

i would think money would be better spent preparing to live without electricity.gather supplies for drying,canning,salting,pickling and smoking and you can still live pretty good. my granddad was a teen before they got electricity to their farm.

 

[GTS225]

That's kind of what I'm thinking. But on "portable solar"... I'm thining automobile portable, not a cart. I have an AWD van that can haul alot. At first thought, I'd mount the solar panels to the roof on a tiltable mount. Then I'd have a built in generator (van) on cloudy days. Should it hit the fan, I could mount it up, strap some gear on the roof rack, load up the family, food, ammo and a case of Dr Pepper and head for high ground. I really hope it would never come to that.

Also with solar, I could mount the panels on the roof, the rest of the kit could be protected from theives by being inside my house/van - unlike a generator which makes noise and tells the 'bad guys' right where electricity can be had. I was in the middle of a few hurricanes and know how crazy it can be when the power is out for a few days. People just become irrational stealing everything that isn't nailed down. I swear as soon as the generators sell out, the next thing to go are bolt cutters.

Doc Watson alluded to the "portability" idea, but you missed the nuance of it. I think he's telling you it will have to be man or pull-cart portable. That AWD van wil be as useless as a gas generator, once the gasoline supplies are exhausted. (It'll be a touch hard driving it anywhere without gas.)
200racing's suggestion to prepare for living without electricity is most likely even better. The less complicated your survival needs are, the more portable you can be.

I did read some survival boards this weekend, but those guys scare me I would never want to meet up with any of them. They seem half off their rockers and most talk about taking everyone elses preparations.

Yeah, there's quite a few of them that have that mentality. It is, after all, "survival", and they carry the concept to survival of the fittest, as in jungle laws. One of the biggest marketable commodities of a full-on meltdown of society will be weapons and ammunition, or the supplies to load your own ammo. If you don't believe in firearms, then you will not survive such a scenario, as they will be required in order to defend yourself against those that would take what is yours.
Equally important will be a source of water. Food can be harvested from nature, as there won't be any DNR rangers to worry about, only private property owners.

My suggestion is to form a network of like-minded individuals, one or two of them being a rural landowner. Try hard to get a cross-section of skills that would lend themselves well to the situation. Should society break down, then a pre-arrangement would be for all the members of the group to rally at the rural property and set up a defensive perimeter immediately. From there, the group could get busy setting up a solar power generating plant with storage battery bank. (A wind generator is just a flag that can be seen from a distance, and bring in the savages.)

I'll stop at this point, as your own needs will dictate the makeup of the group, and requirements of skills sets.

Roger

 

[Josh in FLA]

Don't worry, one little EMP will make most of the electrical goodies a no-go. I like the idea of solar, as it has less maintenance requirements such as fuel and oil for motor and brushes for the generator. My main problem with solar is replacement batteries if it turns into long term issue.

Then again there was that episode of Gilligan's Island where the professor rigged something up with copper wire and coconuts, I believe but it's been a while. Might be good for an extreme backup scenario.

My meager preparations deal with basics food, water, and security. Man lived along time without electricity. It's nice but not necessary.

 

[DocWatson]

As GTS225 said, you're missing the gas issue. It's delivered to the station by TRUCK, pumped from the station tanks by ELECTRICITY. Deliveries will stop IMMEDIATELY and once all the fuel is HAND PUMPED from the inground tanks, that will be IT. Nobody will be refining any more fuel, much less distributing it. The best way to look at the senerio you are proposing is to assume that NOTHING will work or be available when the music stops.

If you want gas, you'll have to start stockpiling it now and setup a system to constantly renew your supply as it has a "shelf life". A buddy in rural Oregon had a 100 gal tank with a gravity pump system on his property because he lived so far from town, didn't get there much and worked as a logger.

As for the survivalist nuts, just shoot yourself when you see them coming. #-o

 

[Kismet]

Don't have time for a search, but might be interesting to look up "steam-powered" cars. Last specific I remember was relating to some European cities during WWII.

Old tech, but...like the moonshine stills for water, still viable.

 

[bigwave]

remember K.I.S.S. your plan requires multiple electric devices to function, too many weak links for me. if caught off gaurd a simple storm could wipe you out.

a wood fire moonshine still is much more simple and reliable. it would meet your water needs and make hooch as well which could be handy in many ways.

i would think money would be better spent preparing to live without electricity.gather supplies for drying,canning,salting,pickling and smoking and you can still live pretty good. my granddad was a teen before they got electricity to their farm.

It is funny you made mention of the still.....My grandfather was born and raised in the mountains outside of Anniston.....he too did not have electricity until about 20 years ago. He said the same exact thing you did.....a man with a still has real bartering power in the time of crisis. He live through prohibition as a child and his family survived on firewater. They always had huge gardens and canned all of their own food. When we would visit there was a certain honk of the horn as you came onto his property......if you did not use the honk method you would be greeted with several large dogs and a long tom shotgun. He passed several years ago, but the stories he told us made me appreciate my style of living compared to the way he grew up. If it came down to it I would probably move to the mountains.

 

[sixgun86]

I remember seeing pictures of Bosnia during the war. They were using water wheels to turn automotive alternators.

There was a story from a fella on that board that talked about living through the Bosnian war. Defiantly an eye opener, good read. I'd link it but you have to be a member in order to read.

 

[Kismet]

Don't have time for a search, but might be interesting to look up "steam-powered" cars. Last specific I remember was relating to some European cities during WWII.

Old tech, but...like the moonshine stills for water, still viable.

wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car

An exerpt:
Stanley Steamer
Main article: Stanley Steamer

Perhaps the best-known and best-selling steam car was the Stanley Steamer, produced from 1896 to 1924. Between 1899 and 1905, Stanley outsold all gasoline-powered cars, and was second only to Columbia Electric in the US.[2] It used a compact fire-tube boiler to power a simple double-acting two-cylinder engine. Because of the phenomenal torque available at all engine speeds, the steam car's engine was typically geared directly to the rear axle, with no clutch or variable speed transmission required. Until 1914, Stanley steam cars vented their exhaust steam directly to the atmosphere, necessitating frequent refilling of the water tank; after 1914, all Stanleys were fitted with a condenser, which considerably reduced their water consumption.

In 1906 the Land Speed Record was broken by a Stanley steam car, piloted by Fred Marriott, which achieved 127 mph (204 km/h) at Ormond Beach, Florida. This annual week-long "Speed Week" was the forerunner of today's Daytona 500. This record was not exceeded by any car until 1910, and, though Barber-Nichols later held the US steam-powered record,[citation needed] the FIA international record was only broken by another steam car on August 25, 2009 by Team Inspiration of the British Steam Car Challenge (see below).

 

[200racing]

are you preparing for a permanent change in society or a disaster that takes along time to recover from?

if the first i would be getting a rural bug out location with a pit style well you could get water out of with a rope and bucket.

if the second i would look into a large water storage tank.

 

[MOE]

Here you go https://gulfport.craigslist.org/for/3284163748.html

Maybe you could rig a couple of these to bicycles :mrgreen:

 

[Hanr3]

Solar isn't very efficient, yet, however it beats nothing.

If you go with a generator, go with propane or natural gas. Both will be cheaper and readily available than gasoline or diesel.

I guess the real question is what are oyu trying to compensate for and for how long?
End of the world- there wont be any power, or fuel. Buy candles or learn to make them from animal fat.
IF you want to keep power for HVAC and refridgeration, can you cost justify them sitting idle for years on end? With solar, you can plug back into the grid and get compensated from your power company.

To be honest, I think your best option you didnt mention, wind power.

 

[Buddychrist]

Ok guys here is the kicker. SHTF and we are all in BFE I will be the one who has a running generator without gasoline.

Just build a Wood gasifier and have plenty of trees.

Wood gasifier is a two stage system. One drum holds your wood to be converted into gas and your second larger drum holds wood openly to be burned to heat the wood in the first drum and create wood gas.

Run a tube from your first drum to your intake and you will have to adjust the intake setup to suck air and the wood gas almost equally.



You can also run cars and trucks



Here is a simple diagram



Hope this helps!

 

[benhere]

Hi guys, first post. Found you a short while back when researching mods for an aluminum Gregor 15' v-hull I picked up. I really admire the ingenuity I've seen on your posts, and I believe I can save time with what I've learned here. (less welding = more fishing!)

Had to comment here, because this is where I make a living, and they are everywhere now. On oil/gas wells, particularly gas wells, we get a liquid by-product we call condensate (aka "drip gas"). If you know a pumper, you might get a bucket. Highly volatile, touchy stuff, but I've always heard about these old country boys running it in their cars. Problem was, the octane (?) level was so high, the ignition usually couldn't shut the engine off once it was running. Had to drop it in gear and lug it down to kill it. That was in the 50's-60's, and engines weren't as particular what they burned....todays' engines would probably be ruined. Maybe somebody else knows more about using this stuff?

We've used solar panels and windmills to charge battery banks offshore for years, they are prohibitively expensive, and a real pain to maintain. Time consuming, dangerous, and expensive. Just my $0.02.

Thanks for a great site,
Benhere