Epoxy vs old timers formula

[BDog]

Hey fellow boaters. I’m new to this forum and came across you all wile searching for ideas. So I just purchased an old deep V aluminum boat and I want to deck it out. I’m not getting all fancy like some of the professional boat builders as I don’t have a ton of money to spend. Anyhow I’m trying to do all my research prior to buying my materials so I don’t wast money buying the wrong stuff. I found some really nice western redwood cedar that I’m going to use for my framing. Living on the east coast this was a lucky find as nobody around here carries any redwood or cedar. I found a guy who had some leftover from building his house and I had to jump on it. For the plywood that marine grade is super expensive and just don’t think I need that. So I’m looking at using some 1/2” RTD plywood. Next thing is sealing all this wood and carpeting the decking. This has caused me so much confusion. I was originally planning on spar urethane. I used that stuff on a bar I made years ago and it worked great. So I’m familiar with it and how to apply it. The problem is no adhesive will stick to it. I have contacted every manufacturer of every type of adhesive looking for advice and they all say the same thing. That I need to keep the wood bare and not add any type of waterproofing or the adhesive will not creat a bond. I really don’t want to leave it bare. So after a ton of forums I found someone explaining that dissolvent based adhesive will dissolve the spar urethane and in time just pull right up. No mention on what dissolvent free adhesive would do. Maybe that works better. Than I came across a post on here talking about epoxy and also old timers formula. Epoxy being the expensive route. Well when I add up all that stuff in the old timers formula it’s not really much cheaper. We’re talking 120 vs 150 for epoxy. I have never used epoxy for something like this. I used epoxy resin once and that was a nightmare. So this old timers formula i kinda like. Yet still I’m unsure as to what is going to make this adhesive bond to it. Especially since the recommendation is to apply it than after it cures use 2 coats of full strength spar urethane. I’m just back to getting a bond on spar urethane. The only thing I found online was a guy who actually tested all these different type glues on spar varnish. Than water tested them. Most of them held until they got wet. They than lost the grip until the carpet dried out. One that worked well was contact cement. It held its bond for 3hrs of water submersion. Problem was once it lost its grip it never restuck. The winner of his test was Henry 263 adhesive. It’s held it’s grip for over 15hrs of water submersion. Well fantastic I found my product. Well no, apparently this adhesive is illegal in my state. For whatever reason it can’t be bought or shipped to my state. I would have to take a day and half drive to get some and we’ll that’s just ridiculous lol. So than next would be bonding cement. I’m just not sure I’m capable of using that stuff. That’s instant with no work time at all. Doing this by myself I foresee many issues and mistakes that will waste money. So I’m back to square one with this sealer and carpet glue. I started thinking about using a fiberglass resin. I see that some adhesive sticks to fiberglass so maybe it sticks to fiberglass resin. Than I started looking at the process and just think it’s nuts to make my deck fiberglass just so I can cover it with carpet. I’m really going crazy and my mind is done. I need your all’s help. This is all I need than I can start my build. I’m not using marine carpet. That’s too expensive lol. I’m using some outdoor polyester carpet from Home Depot. It’s cheap at .50sg’. Can someone please let me know what adhesive to get. Any info or advice would be very helpful and appreciated. Thank you!

 

[CedarRiverScooter]

The epoxy is not hard to use. You will need to 'laminating' epoxy not the clear coat kind. Laminating epoxy can be ordered thru a fiberglass company like US composites. Get medium speed hardener. A quart goes a long ways. When you apply it, thin it 25% with acetone. It will suck into the wood big time. You can give it several coats.

The resin will set you back under $50 but it is a permanent solution.

 

[FishinLite]

I did what your are doing a couple years ago. I used the "Old Timer's Formula" with linseed oil. It has held up perfectly. As for the carpeting I used "Weldwood All weather outdoor carpet adhesive"

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0009X8PEQ?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0004-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-8-wm-3-wm-1-wm-4&ref=aa_pcomp_eoh1_psp1_aps1

I has held up just fine.

If you search for a "Life of a 1981 Lund" you will find my story on this website.

Good Luck, take your time...

 

[DaleH]

Look at Raka epoxy & call Larry or Mike for assistance .... www.raka.com. It is THE most economically priced epoxy going and had replaced West Systems for many of us. A 2-to-1 mix too, no special pumps needed.

If you want the carpet to look good for 25-years ... don’t install it, use marine vinyl which will wear & last 3X longer. There’s nothing more ratty looking than nasty old carpet ...

 

[BDog]

CedarRiverScooter thanks for the reply. I was looking at the resin. Bondo sells a fiberglass resin that I assume is the same stuff. The problem I was reading is you need to put fiberglass matting in the epoxy or it will just begin to crack up. The matting is needed for strength and stability of the resin. This just looked like such overkill to get the carpet to stick. I don’t mind doing it if it’s my only way. The spar urethane is just my preferred way. With so many people using it and putting carpet over it that someone on here used some something that they are confident is holding. I’m going to go to the store today and look at some of the adhesive and possibly get some to try my own tests. I just never new this was so complicated. I might just be over thinking things lol. I am definitely glad I did do some research though because I was originally planning on treated lumber for framing and plywood than I heard that is a huge mistake for aluminum boats lol.

 

[BDog]

I did what your are doing a couple years ago. I used the "Old Timer's Formula" with linseed oil. It has held up perfectly. As for the carpeting I used "Weldwood All weather outdoor carpet adhesive"

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0009X8PEQ?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-a0004-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-8-wm-3-wm-1-wm-4&ref=aa_pcomp_eoh1_psp1_aps1

I has held up just fine.

If you search for a "Life of a 1981 Lund" you will find my story on this website.

Good Luck, take your time...

Thank you! I was looking at that. Many people highly recommended it. Just finding someone around me is tough. I was torn between that one and the tec outdoor carpet adhesive. Neither said it would bond to spar but true This is what I was looking for though. Did you do anything special with it? I was just going to ruff up the final coat of spar with some 60 grit. Did you do anything else?

 

[BDog]

Look at Raka epoxy & call Larry or Mike for assistance .... www.raka.com. It is THE most economically priced epoxy going and had replaced West Systems for many of us. A 2-to-1 mix too, no special pumps needed.

If you want the carpet to look good for 25-years ... don’t install it, use marine vinyl which will wear & last 3X longer. There’s nothing more ratty looking than nasty old carpet ...

Wouldn’t vinyl be a bit slippery when wet? I will check that epoxy out. Thank you

 

[RaisedByWolves]

The epoxy is not hard to use. You will need to 'laminating' epoxy not the clear coat kind. Laminating epoxy can be ordered thru a fiberglass company like US composites. Get medium speed hardener. A quart goes a long ways. When you apply it, thin it 25% with acetone. It will suck into the wood big time. You can give it several coats.

The resin will set you back under $50 but it is a permanent solution.

Ive gone away from thinning with acetone as Ive read that while it does help penetration it negatively affects the strength of the bond.

 

[BDog]

The epoxy is not hard to use. You will need to 'laminating' epoxy not the clear coat kind. Laminating epoxy can be ordered thru a fiberglass company like US composites. Get medium speed hardener. A quart goes a long ways. When you apply it, thin it 25% with acetone. It will suck into the wood big time. You can give it several coats.

The resin will set you back under $50 but it is a permanent solution.

Ive gone away from thinning with acetone as Ive read that while it does help penetration it negatively affects the strength of the bond.

Just with the epoxy. What about spar urethane? It’s going on cedar that I imagine is going to suck it up pretty good and on 1/2” RTD plywood (next generation CDX). I wouldn’t think that would need to absorb much unless this old time formula does more than just help adsorption.

 

[Weldorthemagnificent]

Either which way you go, store the boat covered with the bow up and plug out. Carpet and wood will last a long time.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

 

[jlake1958]

Hey fellow boaters. I’m new to this forum and came across you all wile searching for ideas. So I just purchased an old deep V aluminum boat and I want to deck it out. I’m not getting all fancy like some of the professional boat builders as I don’t have a ton of money to spend. Anyhow I’m trying to do all my research prior to buying my materials so I don’t wast money buying the wrong stuff. I found some really nice western redwood cedar that I’m going to use for my framing. Living on the east coast this was a lucky find as nobody around here carries any redwood or cedar. I found a guy who had some leftover from building his house and I had to jump on it. For the plywood that marine grade is super expensive and just don’t think I need that. So I’m looking at using some 1/2” RTD plywood. Next thing is sealing all this wood and carpeting the decking. This has caused me so much confusion. I was originally planning on spar urethane. I used that stuff on a bar I made years ago and it worked great. So I’m familiar with it and how to apply it. The problem is no adhesive will stick to it. I have contacted every manufacturer of every type of adhesive looking for advice and they all say the same thing. That I need to keep the wood bare and not add any type of waterproofing or the adhesive will not creat a bond. I really don’t want to leave it bare. So after a ton of forums I found someone explaining that dissolvent based adhesive will dissolve the spar urethane and in time just pull right up. No mention on what dissolvent free adhesive would do. Maybe that works better. Than I came across a post on here talking about epoxy and also old timers formula. Epoxy being the expensive route. Well when I add up all that stuff in the old timers formula it’s not really much cheaper. We’re talking 120 vs 150 for epoxy. I have never used epoxy for something like this. I used epoxy resin once and that was a nightmare. So this old timers formula i kinda like. Yet still I’m unsure as to what is going to make this adhesive bond to it. Especially since the recommendation is to apply it than after it cures use 2 coats of full strength spar urethane. I’m just back to getting a bond on spar urethane. The only thing I found online was a guy who actually tested all these different type glues on spar varnish. Than water tested them. Most of them held until they got wet. They than lost the grip until the carpet dried out. One that worked well was contact cement. It held its bond for 3hrs of water submersion. Problem was once it lost its grip it never restuck. The winner of his test was Henry 263 adhesive. It’s held it’s grip for over 15hrs of water submersion. Well fantastic I found my product. Well no, apparently this adhesive is illegal in my state. For whatever reason it can’t be bought or shipped to my state. I would have to take a day and half drive to get some and we’ll that’s just ridiculous lol. So than next would be bonding cement. I’m just not sure I’m capable of using that stuff. That’s instant with no work time at all. Doing this by myself I foresee many issues and mistakes that will waste money. So I’m back to square one with this sealer and carpet glue. I started thinking about using a fiberglass resin. I see that some adhesive sticks to fiberglass so maybe it sticks to fiberglass resin. Than I started looking at the process and just think it’s nuts to make my deck fiberglass just so I can cover it with carpet. I’m really going crazy and my mind is done. I need your all’s help. This is all I need than I can start my build. I’m not using marine carpet. That’s too expensive lol. I’m using some outdoor polyester carpet from Home Depot. It’s cheap at .50sg’. Can someone please let me know what adhesive to get. Any info or advice would be very helpful and appreciated. Thank you!

you can use a bunch of products on wood. i used TotalBoat Penetrating Epoxy and thinned 2 coats at 60/40 and then 2 coats non-thinned. My decking is literally shiny plastic now. One thing you do need to do is scuff your wood from second coat to fourth coat so the epoxy has some tooth for the following coat. With TotalBoat you can recoat before it is cured which helps with the curing timeframe which can be 3 days if real cold--below 50 degrees. TotalBoat also makes said product in a "ColdWeather" version which is what i used. My shop is heated but this time of year it hovers around 50 degrees so I played it safe.