shoestringmariner
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Shaugh said:
Man, those pallet floors look great! And I love the 58 Johnny on autopilot lol
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Man, those pallet floors look great! And I love the 58 Johnny on autopilot lol
shoestringmariner
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That's a great looking hull...nice and deep
AZSunDevil
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Well i made the transom from 3/4" plywood and put first coat of spar urethane on. Sanded with 150 then 220 to prep the surface I guess that will work? Not much of a wood worker at all. Had some areas that the finish split and cracked when drilling the holes. First slid the glued together transom into boat to make sure it fit. Then drilled holes while it was in there. Some of the top needed to be taken down to be flush. My cuts were not great but a belt sander I happen to have on hand made short work of that.
I didn't bother messing with thinning the varnish it's beyond my scope of expertise and my patience. I just waited until morning when temps were reasonable (85 to 90) to apply. As mentioned before humidity is no factor here. Super dry!
I glued the exterior grade plywood together with Elmer wood glue. Not sure this was the right call or not but oh well! Hope she holds up.
Rinsed the brush with acetone and will try letting it sit in a cup of acetone to see if that works to keep it workable between coats. Stuff is kind of expensive 8$ a quart or so...so i dont want to be throwing gallons of the stuff away. If this doesn't work I'll buy cheap brushes and throw them away after each use. Don't really care just going to see what works. Not trying to win any beauty contests just going for functionality especially on the bunks.
I'll probably go for 5 coats on the transom and bunks. It says sand with 220 grit Between coats And wait for 4 hours to dry between Coats
I didn't bother messing with thinning the varnish it's beyond my scope of expertise and my patience. I just waited until morning when temps were reasonable (85 to 90) to apply. As mentioned before humidity is no factor here. Super dry!
I glued the exterior grade plywood together with Elmer wood glue. Not sure this was the right call or not but oh well! Hope she holds up.
Rinsed the brush with acetone and will try letting it sit in a cup of acetone to see if that works to keep it workable between coats. Stuff is kind of expensive 8$ a quart or so...so i dont want to be throwing gallons of the stuff away. If this doesn't work I'll buy cheap brushes and throw them away after each use. Don't really care just going to see what works. Not trying to win any beauty contests just going for functionality especially on the bunks.
I'll probably go for 5 coats on the transom and bunks. It says sand with 220 grit Between coats And wait for 4 hours to dry between Coats
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Again I apologize for the photos coming in sideways from my phone. Hope you don't all get a crick in your necks.
good job so far !!
I use regular cheap gasoline @ $1.99 a gallon (for now) and use that
to rinse the brushes 3 or 4 times . . . pour the gas onto an old tree stump
I am trying to kill. then let the brushes soak in mineral spirits to keep the paint
from hardening in the top of the bristles.... then whack that out on a chain link fence
and into a can of paint brush cleaner/conditioner and let that soak for 24 hours and rinse in warm soapy water.
use a large stainless wire brush to break up any stubborn paint that wants to cling to the bristles.
I have over 3 dozen brushes of different sizes so I can always use a clean brush for the next coats.
I think in Arizona if you threw a cup of acetone into the air, it would evaporate before
it hits the ground. if it is less than 24 hours between coats, you can wrap the brush
(with paint in it) in Saran Wrap and put in the refrigerator.
I think you will have better results by using mineral spirits instead of acetone or lacquer thinner.
all kinds of tricks to learn in the painting field.
when you pay $20-30 for a single brush, you take care of it a little better than a $4.00 brush.
* paint or varnish = same treatment.
.
I use regular cheap gasoline @ $1.99 a gallon (for now) and use that
to rinse the brushes 3 or 4 times . . . pour the gas onto an old tree stump
I am trying to kill. then let the brushes soak in mineral spirits to keep the paint
from hardening in the top of the bristles.... then whack that out on a chain link fence
and into a can of paint brush cleaner/conditioner and let that soak for 24 hours and rinse in warm soapy water.
use a large stainless wire brush to break up any stubborn paint that wants to cling to the bristles.
I have over 3 dozen brushes of different sizes so I can always use a clean brush for the next coats.
I think in Arizona if you threw a cup of acetone into the air, it would evaporate before
it hits the ground. if it is less than 24 hours between coats, you can wrap the brush
(with paint in it) in Saran Wrap and put in the refrigerator.
I think you will have better results by using mineral spirits instead of acetone or lacquer thinner.
all kinds of tricks to learn in the painting field.
when you pay $20-30 for a single brush, you take care of it a little better than a $4.00 brush.
* paint or varnish = same treatment.
.
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Got quite a bit done since I last posted. Sorry but this is really frustrating for me to add photos to this forum but I'll try to add some later. It would be nice if they updated this forum platform/architecture to where you can just drag and drop photos like many of the newer forums out there.
As far as boat progress goes I finished the transom and bunks for trailer with 5 coats of spar varnish. I carpeted the bunks with $10 worth of outdoor carpet from Lowes. I had a buddy come over and help weld bunk brackets to the angle iron on my trailer. I got the trailer wire brushed down with angle grinder, washed with TSP, then sanded some more rough spots or hard to reach areas with a hand wire brush, wiped it all down again with lacquer thinner then Primed it. I had to shoot primer first thing in the AM here as it's over 90 degrees by 8am. So I got up about 5:30, several days in a row, to primer and then put a couple of coats of paint on the boat. Paint I used was the Rustoleum Clean Metal Primer for the trailer. I hit the bunk brackets with Universal Bonding Primer because somewhere I saw Rustoleum Tech advice that this would work on Galvanized metal. Then after reading the can it said to not use on Galvanized metal. Well it stuck so far, so we'll see how it holds up. For topcoat I used Protective Enamel Black Gloss, thinned it with the max recommended 15% Xylene since it is so hot and dry here and I also decided to try the Valspar Enamel Hardener which I've seen so many good reviews on. I thinned the clean metal primer with Mineral Spirits as this is what the Manufacturer instructions called for on the primer. I ended up using about half a quart of primer and 1 full quart of Enamel Black Gloss. I shot the paint with my cheap little "Husky" HVLP. The second coat looked much better than the first. However I do not think I'll be using Rustoleum on the Boat because I do not want something that will fade and get chalky here in AZ. The boat will be parked outside, and of course I'll do my best to keep it covered but I really just question the durability of this paint. Also the Rustoleum paint is still soft, two days after shooting. I was assembling the trailer yesterday and noticed how easily the paint would gouge or just scrape off. Not really a fan based on these first impressions.
After putting all of that work into the boat to prep for paint I'm planning to use an automotive DTM Epoxy Primer followed by a single stage urethane. Yeah it's going to cost me 10 times more than a few cans of rustoleum but it should also hold up better over time. I REALLY do not want to be stripping paint and repainting every 2 or 3 years and I just don't feel the rustoleum is going to hold up well in this HOT and INTENSE Arizona climate. The Epoxy Primer is going to run me about $100 for two quarts with necessary additives. The Urethane will cost me about $60 per quart with necessary additives. I'm going to be close to $300 when it's all said and done to paint the outside of the hull above the chine, and the entire inside of the hull. I will leave the gunwale bare aluminum and the bottom of the hull I think I am going to leave bare aluminum.
So that's where I am at today...it was nice to finally get the trailer put back together even though I felt like the Rusto paint job was a bit half-assed. Oh well, it's a trailer and it served as a good learning platform.
As far as boat progress goes I finished the transom and bunks for trailer with 5 coats of spar varnish. I carpeted the bunks with $10 worth of outdoor carpet from Lowes. I had a buddy come over and help weld bunk brackets to the angle iron on my trailer. I got the trailer wire brushed down with angle grinder, washed with TSP, then sanded some more rough spots or hard to reach areas with a hand wire brush, wiped it all down again with lacquer thinner then Primed it. I had to shoot primer first thing in the AM here as it's over 90 degrees by 8am. So I got up about 5:30, several days in a row, to primer and then put a couple of coats of paint on the boat. Paint I used was the Rustoleum Clean Metal Primer for the trailer. I hit the bunk brackets with Universal Bonding Primer because somewhere I saw Rustoleum Tech advice that this would work on Galvanized metal. Then after reading the can it said to not use on Galvanized metal. Well it stuck so far, so we'll see how it holds up. For topcoat I used Protective Enamel Black Gloss, thinned it with the max recommended 15% Xylene since it is so hot and dry here and I also decided to try the Valspar Enamel Hardener which I've seen so many good reviews on. I thinned the clean metal primer with Mineral Spirits as this is what the Manufacturer instructions called for on the primer. I ended up using about half a quart of primer and 1 full quart of Enamel Black Gloss. I shot the paint with my cheap little "Husky" HVLP. The second coat looked much better than the first. However I do not think I'll be using Rustoleum on the Boat because I do not want something that will fade and get chalky here in AZ. The boat will be parked outside, and of course I'll do my best to keep it covered but I really just question the durability of this paint. Also the Rustoleum paint is still soft, two days after shooting. I was assembling the trailer yesterday and noticed how easily the paint would gouge or just scrape off. Not really a fan based on these first impressions.
After putting all of that work into the boat to prep for paint I'm planning to use an automotive DTM Epoxy Primer followed by a single stage urethane. Yeah it's going to cost me 10 times more than a few cans of rustoleum but it should also hold up better over time. I REALLY do not want to be stripping paint and repainting every 2 or 3 years and I just don't feel the rustoleum is going to hold up well in this HOT and INTENSE Arizona climate. The Epoxy Primer is going to run me about $100 for two quarts with necessary additives. The Urethane will cost me about $60 per quart with necessary additives. I'm going to be close to $300 when it's all said and done to paint the outside of the hull above the chine, and the entire inside of the hull. I will leave the gunwale bare aluminum and the bottom of the hull I think I am going to leave bare aluminum.
So that's where I am at today...it was nice to finally get the trailer put back together even though I felt like the Rusto paint job was a bit half-assed. Oh well, it's a trailer and it served as a good learning platform.
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
The way my phone takes the photos seems to disagree with the way this forum accepts them. They look fine from my end until I upload and then the forum displays them in all different directions. I apologize but I do not have the time or patience to deal with it. I can only upload from my phone, they look perfectly fine from the phone so it is impossible for me to predict the way they will turn out on here.
As for the bow roller, the bracket is too long and not in the right position. I need to get that figured out. I ran new wiring yesterday and used a split wire loom for the first few feet of exposed wire. For the rest of the wire I ran it inside the angle iron of the frame and used little metal brackets/clips to hold it in place. I will cover any bare wire with liquid electrical tape when I'm done splicing and dicing.
As for the bow roller, the bracket is too long and not in the right position. I need to get that figured out. I ran new wiring yesterday and used a split wire loom for the first few feet of exposed wire. For the rest of the wire I ran it inside the angle iron of the frame and used little metal brackets/clips to hold it in place. I will cover any bare wire with liquid electrical tape when I'm done splicing and dicing.
Attachments
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Fixed bow roller stop. Cut bracket down and drilled two new 1/2" holes to mount it tighter to the winch post. It's probably not the way a boat trailer designer would build it but doing the best I know how with what I have.
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Man oh man have I got my money's worth out of that Orange Nyalox Brush you recommended. I bought the cup brush (2.5") from amazon https://www.amazon.com/Dico-541-780-21-Nyalox-2-Inch-Orange/dp/B00004YYD1/ref=pd_sim_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00004YYD1&pd_rd_r=JWVFDCEDQ0AEP21RSY9F&pd_rd_w=m3DNQ&pd_rd_wg=Toj9I&psc=1&refRID=JWVFDCEDQ0AEP21RSY9FShaugh said:
I also tried the much more expensive Angle Grinder version of the orange brush to see if it would speed things up but it leaves melted plastic/rubber marks on the hull so just creates more work than it does solving problems. The drill version of the orange brush paired with my $40 Lowes corded Black & Decker drill (1500-2000rpm?) seems to do the trick just fine. It's just tedious work.
Entire exterior of hull is completely stripped. Also stripped the gunwale. Aircraft Remover and a 3100 PSI Pressure Washer would probably work faster but I like the brush swirl marks the Nyalox leaves. I'm still undecided on the interior the paint in there is pretty chalky. When I hit it with the cup brush, it throws paint dust everywhere. I'm going to try to wash it and scrub it with a scotchbrite pad but if it still has a chalky residue the next day I think I'm going to be forced to strip the entire interior as well. I don't want to throw all of the effort and money away by having new paint flaking off in a year or less due to poor substrate.
Looking good ... a bite a day and pretty soon the dead elephant is bones...
The cup brush is ok for hard to reach spots but it's too small and underpowered. You'll get much quicker removal with the 4" brush I linked. The grinder size melts... the fine and coarse are not as effective... that 4" orange one works perfectly. It also limits the swirl marks because you can keep them all in straight lines..
The cup brush is ok for hard to reach spots but it's too small and underpowered. You'll get much quicker removal with the 4" brush I linked. The grinder size melts... the fine and coarse are not as effective... that 4" orange one works perfectly. It also limits the swirl marks because you can keep them all in straight lines..
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
They have the 4" wheel brush (orange) at my local Ace Hardware for $10. I'll stop by and pick one up to give it a whirl. Will report back with my findings.Shaugh said:
Do you have a link to your thread of prep and paint for that particular boat you showed with the brush? I searched your posts but couldn't find it.
I've never done a build along thread... Might do it on the next one..
For painting I like to use the roll and tip method. Alternating between the 2 when appropriate. And then as a last move before you move on to a new area, use the brush one last time to smooth everything out. Keep your final brush strokes light and long and all in the same direction. Use a top quality brush.. And in a hot place like AZ the thinning is a must..
here's a decent how to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGHucs9FpmU
I know you said you wanted to spray with epoxy, but it's easy to get great results doing it like that.... been getting done that way since boats were made from trees... I've actually read some discussion about how rolling and brushing paint makes it stick much better than spraying.. because you're actually using physical force to apply the paint, rather than just having it float down...
For painting I like to use the roll and tip method. Alternating between the 2 when appropriate. And then as a last move before you move on to a new area, use the brush one last time to smooth everything out. Keep your final brush strokes light and long and all in the same direction. Use a top quality brush.. And in a hot place like AZ the thinning is a must..
here's a decent how to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGHucs9FpmU
I know you said you wanted to spray with epoxy, but it's easy to get great results doing it like that.... been getting done that way since boats were made from trees... I've actually read some discussion about how rolling and brushing paint makes it stick much better than spraying.. because you're actually using physical force to apply the paint, rather than just having it float down...
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Here in AZ where it is 30% humidity and 90 degrees by 7:30 or 8AM I am going to try to spray and use a slow urethane reducer as recommended by manufacturer. This really helps me get the paint on quickly. It is messier and maybe the results won't look quite as good as the Roll and Tip method but I believe with the proper preparation the Epoxy Primer and Urethane will hold up much better than the rustoleum over time. So I'm going to give it a whirl. I went to my local automotive paint supply store and bought a gallon (only because cheaper than quarts) of Matrix System Epoxy Primer (White) MP-450 and the manufacturer recommended MAV-420 Activator. I also purchased a quart of Advantage Refinish single stage urethane with catalyst and Advantage Refinish Slow Urethane Reducer as recommended by manufacturer for my application climate considerations. My goal is primer and paint the exterior of hull this weekend. If all goes well I will attempt to do the interior of the boat the following weekend.
I plan to clean exterior with TSP, scuff with red scotch brite pad, blow off with compressed air, then I will wipe down again with clean rag and solvent "prewash" for a final cleaning. Then I will shoot the primer, instructions call for two medium flowing coats but I'll probably start on the thinner side with the first coat then go just slightly more on the second coat-- Flash time between coats per TDS is 10 to 15 minutes on first coat, then 15 to 20 minutes on second coat. I will then wait about an hour just to be sure the primer coats are flashed. Then I'll go straight into shooting the urethane topcoat. We will see how she turns out. Will post pics when done. If you wait more than 24 hours on this particular Epoxy Primer you have to sand it prior to top coating or recoating. Every paint I've researched is a bit different depending on variety and manufacturer so I am attempting to follow their instructions to the letter.
I'll probably have $300 worth of paint on this boat when it's all said and done. It probably won't look like a beauty queen but I'm pretty confident it will hold up better and longer than the Rustoleum job. Also I am feeling better about the spray gun since I've practiced a bit on the trailer, cardboard and also some scrap sheet aluminum I picked up from my buddy's scrap yard.
I plan to clean exterior with TSP, scuff with red scotch brite pad, blow off with compressed air, then I will wipe down again with clean rag and solvent "prewash" for a final cleaning. Then I will shoot the primer, instructions call for two medium flowing coats but I'll probably start on the thinner side with the first coat then go just slightly more on the second coat-- Flash time between coats per TDS is 10 to 15 minutes on first coat, then 15 to 20 minutes on second coat. I will then wait about an hour just to be sure the primer coats are flashed. Then I'll go straight into shooting the urethane topcoat. We will see how she turns out. Will post pics when done. If you wait more than 24 hours on this particular Epoxy Primer you have to sand it prior to top coating or recoating. Every paint I've researched is a bit different depending on variety and manufacturer so I am attempting to follow their instructions to the letter.
I'll probably have $300 worth of paint on this boat when it's all said and done. It probably won't look like a beauty queen but I'm pretty confident it will hold up better and longer than the Rustoleum job. Also I am feeling better about the spray gun since I've practiced a bit on the trailer, cardboard and also some scrap sheet aluminum I picked up from my buddy's scrap yard.
gatorglenn
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Can't wait to see how this turns out. Same way Iam going
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AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Painted exterior as planned. Looks good from about 10ft but I should have done some stuff differently because I got a decent amount of orange peel and a rougher than desired finish. Lines from tape and masking came out great so that was a bright spot.
Was advised not to use a reducer with the primer. The primer was too thick and went on rough. I decided to paint over it anyway because I was running out of shade. In hindsight should have probably sanded the primer down smoother. Then also the Top coat was a bit orange peel even on my test metal which may have been from also being a bit too thick. Oh well live and learn. Maybe there's a way to improve it by doing a little sanding and polishing? Not sure. The fish won't care anyhow.
Also I'm confident we prepped the aluminum correctly for this epoxy primer. I don't think that urethane will be coming off anytime soon! Should hold up tougher than the rustoleum I used on the trailer.
Was advised not to use a reducer with the primer. The primer was too thick and went on rough. I decided to paint over it anyway because I was running out of shade. In hindsight should have probably sanded the primer down smoother. Then also the Top coat was a bit orange peel even on my test metal which may have been from also being a bit too thick. Oh well live and learn. Maybe there's a way to improve it by doing a little sanding and polishing? Not sure. The fish won't care anyhow.
Also I'm confident we prepped the aluminum correctly for this epoxy primer. I don't think that urethane will be coming off anytime soon! Should hold up tougher than the rustoleum I used on the trailer.
water bouy
Well-known member
Very nice. What kind of motor ya putting on it.
AZSunDevil
Well-known member
Probably just a little 15 or 20hp tiller. Haven't decided between a 2 or 4 stroke. Will try to find something on Craigslist.water bouy said:
My debate on motor size is many of the mountain lakes here are 10HP or electric only. But if I do get a desire to take it on a larger lake I'll probably want more than a 10hp I'm guessing. Not really sure how a 15 would push the boat but saw a really nice 2 stroke merc Long shaft for $1200 still looked brand new.
gatorglenn
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Well from the pics it looks awesome. Great job [emoji106]
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AZSunDevil
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Glenn if you have more time than I did, and a larger window to work in when painting, I'd really take more time to practice with the material and gun. You can pick up some scrap metal or aluminum from a local salvage yard and just practice spraying it, see how it sets up and dries. The only downside as others have pointed out is that the setup, mixing paint, cleanup (gun cleaning too) can be labor intensive and time consuming. But like I said if you don't have a climate-constrained window to paint in -- like I did, you could probably get it to turn out much better. I should have practiced more and probably taken my time a bit better but the weather here in the summer has been unforgiving and my wife is about a month from having our first child. Given this combined with my desire to get the boat finished and on the water, I've rushed it a little more than other guys may have. If I was retired or single, I'd probably be much slower and more methodical. Some day....gatorglenn said:
She looks OK, definitely looks good from 10 feet!!! :lol:
EDIT: When I say climate constraints and window to paint it has to do with the weather this time of year (monsoon season) and the heat. So I have only about 4 hours of morning light before it gets too hot to apply paint. I'm working outside because I don't have another practical option. I could rent a paint booth for $100, but then you're under a time constraint again... and more money. I really didn't want to break the painting into too many phases. The primer needs to be topcoated within 24 hours, otherwise you have to sand it again before you shoot the topcoat. If you wait a day here, it could mean that its pouring down rain. You have to seize the day this time of year in Phoenix. So yeah, if I didn't paint the entire exterior yesterday it would have meant postponing another week and who knows what the weather would be like next weekend. Hope to get the interior done next week!
gatorglenn
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Thanks for the heads up[emoji106]
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