Jet Propulsion Jon Boat question?

[BloodStone]

Hello all;
I fish a river in mid-Michigan called The Shiawahsee River (bottom is 98% of the time gravel & the occasional big smooth rock). One minute it can run from 3'-5' & the next 2"-3" deep. Where I live there is no public launch within 20 miles. The current speed I am guessing is 3-4mph. Anyway, I have a 12' lightweight paper thin aluminum Jon boat with 2 clam-shell swivel seats mounted (on posts) permanently inside the boat (bottom is roughly 32" wide). I put the boat in the bed of my S-10 pickup. What I have been using to propel this craft up this particular river is a 55lb thrust transom mounted Minn Kota electric trolling motor. However, with just me in the boat, I have to set the speed at 4 or 5 to make any headway against the current especially in the real shallow water where it gathers speed. Where the prop hits the bottom it's usually get out & start walking the boat up the river to relaunch (what a royal pain! :-x ). To the point: Would buying another Jon boat outfitted with some type of a jet propulsion system do me any good? If so, which ones do you recommend? What would be really great is if I could find an outfit that would satisfy both my river needs & I'd be able to use on larger inland bodies of water. Perhaps a Phantom SJX Boat :?: Any useful suggestions are more than welcome. Thanks in advance

 

[Aaron Lariscy]

Im no expert in jet boats and there is actually a jet boat forum down alittle futher but I believe it's a pretty common for a outboard jet with the proper hull to run it 2'' of water. I don't think there very cheap so if you don't have deep pockets it may not be for you...

My dream is one of these but I don't ever see it happening just because it's way out of my price range and I hardly ever need a jet boat for the bodies of water I run...
https://www.riverpro-boats.com/

 

[Ranchero50]

I think you are asking for the best of both worlds, jet hulls that work well in very shallow water aren't as good as deep V's in larger water. Outboard jets work well for what you are doing but I would probably buy a wider hull just because it will displace less, a 1448 or 1648 with a stick steer setup so you can look down into the water to see the rocks better and because it will displace (float) level vs. tail down like tiller steers do.

My boat does well in the water you describe, displaces 5-6" at idle without any drama.

Jamie

 

[fender66]

Moved to Jet Boat section where you will get more response.

 

[PSG-1]

I think this is what you need:


2 stroke 1000 c.c. version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYo9X1WhnPQ

AND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tLhEzMgYrQ



4 stroke High Output Yamaha MR-1 version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1zx0btzb88


This is a 1997 DuraCraft MV1648SV hull. With either the 2 stroke or the 4 stroke, idling draft for this vessel is about 8-10". Planing draft is about 3-4", as you can see in one of the videos, I go right over the top of shoaling areas that are about 3-4" of water, with no issue. And just like a jet ski, you can cut the wheel at 30 MPH, and this boat will do a 180 degree spin in its own length.

Unlike most of the other jet ski/johnboat projects out there, this one utilizes an all-aluminum bolt in pump. The Yamaha XL1200. As far as I know, this, and the XL700, are the ONLY jet ski pumps which utilize a bolt in aluminum intake duct. All other skis have this part molded into the hull, and as a result, most people simply chop the glass hull out of the jet ski, with the motor mounts and the intake scoop, and then they splice it into the aluminum hull of their boat.

That might be fine for flat water, or a pond, but where I operate, the water is NEVER calm. Aluminum and fiberglass have different yield and flex rates, as you can see, this could be an issue.

So, as far as this type of design, there's only one person I'm aware of that builds a boat like this, and that would be yours truly.

And as far as doing a project like this, don't try to do it with a beer-can hull. You need material at least .80"-.100" thick, not this .050" or .062" used on pond boats.

 

[Darkside]

Bloodstone- Just Some Warning Flags for you and other potential Jetters:

Anyone claiming they can run in 2” of water for any significant distance in a jet is suffering from a severe case of cognitive bias. You’ll likely here claims of 25” smallies, 20’ snow storms and other forms of perceptual distortion from this person LOL. Take heed and be warned.

Granted, many of us can run a distance of several feet jumping essentially wet shoals (by pushing water off the bow or in a slide), but I’ve yet to see any jet boat run in 2” of water for a distance that cannot be measured easily in feet. Be cautious of any such claims before spending your hard earned money on a jet to do this.

It is not likely you can run hundreds of yards in 2 inches of water. A shoal that runs 20' or so? Yup - you can do that in the right craft.

Another male issue that usually impacts us mid person is our ability to guess small distances accurately. 8” of water looks like 4 to many and at 30mph, it may even look like 3! I’ve given rides to guys on clear water rivers and nearly all think we’re in 3-4” when we’re in 6+

Some logic to consider. In a non tunnel jet boat, the heel of the intake shoe sits 2.5”below the bottom of the boat. If you could get the boat to sit on the surface somehow… you would scrap at 2.5” deep. Most jets cannot drum up enough power to left a boat with payload completely out of the water. It would need to “raise the boat off the water” to run 2 inch depths for any significant distance.

Most Outboard jets can run easily in 6” of water, others 4” and some tunnels down to 3” if the bottom is uniform. Remember a dollar bill is 6”x2.5”

 

[Lil' Blue Rude]

Darkside:
You must not be from Missouri, Because I don't know of many boats around here that don't make enough power to pick there selves up out of the water. Most people over load a jet right from the get go.
I'll say not all jets can run 2" but I'm pretty sure no props can. :lol:

 

[Darkside]

Darkside:
You must not be from Missouri, Because I don't know of many boats around here that don't make enough power to pick there selves up out of the water. Most people over load a jet right from the get go.
I'll say not all jets can run 2" but I'm pretty sure no props can. :lol:

Read it several times and can't say I follow you comments completely. If you're running an outboard jet boat that runs with the hull 1/2" above the surface of the water, that I have to see for myself. Since the Heel of the intake sits below the bottom of a standard hull. You can build them lite and get great lift, but I'll challenge the 2" in a outboard jet.

Guys that sell the idea that 2" is common place to new jetters only take advantage of them. You hit these on any standard 0.08 - .100 tin can and you're calling your insurance company.

Your response is typical though. My advice for anglers does differs that of people trying to sell them on the idea that the boats can run any distance in 2" of water or... from speed jockies running .080 gage crafts running juiced up outboard jets to get every ounce of speed out of them.

 

[PSG-1]

I've never actually measured the distance that my jetboat will run in shallow water, but I know on at least one occasion, I ran through a shallow area over a shoal, for at least 100 yards, and I churned sand once or twice in that distance, but kept going, until I hit the deeper water on the other side. Yeah, I was concerned about running out of water, I thought for sure I would end up grounding, but it didn't happen. However, if you back off the throttle while doing something like this, the boat will gain more draft in the stern, then it will come to a very rapid stop, and you are screwed!

I have also run outboards with manual tilt across narrow shoal areas, hit the throttle right before reaching it, then lifting the motor and sliding across the shoal, then dropping the motor and hitting the throttle once I reached deeper water (I don't recommend doing this, as it can be very abusive to a lower unit)

I don't have problems judging distances, depths, or lengths of fish, either. I know what 4" of water looks like.


I'm not touting my boat as some magic carpet that will just glide over an oyster rock, no boat can do that, except maybe an airboat, and even then, it's probably going to tear up the hull. But I will challenge anyone with an outboard, either prop drive, OR jet drive, to follow me anywhere, and let's see which boat runs aground first.

 

[Lil' Blue Rude]

Read it several times and can't say I follow you comments completely. If you're running an outboard jet boat that runs with the hull 1/2" above the surface of the water, that I have to see for myself. Since the Heel of the intake sits below the bottom of a standard hull. You can build them lite and get great lift, but I'll challenge the 2" in a outboard jet.

Guys that sell the idea that 2" is common place to new jetters only take advantage of them. You hit these on any standard 0.08 - .100 tin can and you're calling your insurance company.

Your response is typical though. My advice for anglers does differs that of people trying to sell them on the idea that the boats can run any distance in 2" of water or... from speed jockies running .080 gage crafts running juiced up outboard jets to get every ounce of speed out of them.

I'm sayin most boats around here can pick themselves up out of the water enough they run flat on top of the water with only the ribs being left in the water. A jet that's set up right and trimmed out when on plain shoe is less then 2.5" bellow the bottom of the boat. If your boats running flat you should have no problem getting the boat to run over 2" of water. The shoe will definetly be the first thing to hit if your going to but it's going to take less then 2" of water. I'm not saying you can put a jet in a creek and run it but they will go shallower then any prop motor and alot of guys have run in 2" of water with their jets.
I'm a speed freek but I say juice is for (kitty cats :mrgreen: ) Why get on here and dog the outboard jets like you are? Alot of us guys get on here and try to inform people about how outboard jet are great to get into skinny water to fish and just to boat ride and have fun. Most people only hear about how bad they are and it sounds like your one of those guys that goes around sayin how bad they are. If you don't like them don't own one.

 

[RPjet]

Oh boy....this is gonna get good! Lil' Blue.....don't go spouting off about someone that you know nothing about. Just because he is a newbie to this site doesn't mean he knows nothing about jet boats.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jim]

Guys, please keep it light in here. This is the friendly happy site.

 

[Kevin Turner]

What we have here is a failure to communicate

In reality, we're all on the same team. As stated, DS is a Tinboat.net newbie, but no stranger to boating/fishing forums. Although not a boat dealer, I think of Darkside as the East Coast's version of Joe Troutt: Great guy, alwayz willing to help, and a wealth of aluminum jet boat knowledge.

That said, his engineer head is full of East Coast River Jet fishing knowledge. I'm guessing he'll be wide open to learning about/how the Mid Missouri river jet contingent sets up their crafts.

 

[Ranchero50]

Yeah that, the venerable OBjet from PA's razorback rivers ends up with a RiverPro and changes his name to Darkside. I'd venture you've both seen him and read his work in the inboard vs. outboards PDF from the PA fish and game magazine that got posted a couple weeks ago.

From Youtube videos I'll say the the Missouri guys have it made, your water looks like you could drag the jet foot across the pebbles in the shoals and be no worse for wear. The Susky has a bottom made of very sharp broken granite that loves to grab and tear aluminum or rip a jet foot apart. We're talking a rock with the surface texture like 40 grit sandpaper that chips into shards like indian arrowheads.

If the hull even touches a rock it's a matter of how much destruction, not 'if' there's damage.

Jamie

 

[Lil' Blue Rude]

I didn't think I was too out of line with my response but if I was my apologizes. I just didn't take to kind to his comment about a speed jockies running juice motor, kinda felt like that was aimed a little.
I see where you guys are coming from because of the rivers you run having rock selved bottoms but the river bloodstone was talking about sound perfect for a jet. I feel that guys around here have a little better setup boat for running shallow water but I see your guys boats serve their purpose.

 

[fatherfire89]

Haha I love it.

 

[andrewt]

I don't think that any of these comments could be concidered spouting or, popping off, knee jerk, or out of line. Everyone sit back take a sip of ice tea and breath a second. ( noone wants to get moderators involved, they are quick to jump in) (( Joke guys I know I'm one that pushes buttons, trying to be funny, peace offering :mrgreen: #-o =D> :mrgreen: )) All jokes aside, these boats here in Missouri can and do run in 2" of water. Everyone has their own area's of expertice, and set up of their rig to perform to the max in the conditions they set them up for. We set our boats up to where there is about an inch of the shoe below the back of the boat, then as we take off and get on plane, we trim up to keep the shoe right below the surface of the water. The ribs on the bottom of our boat are about an inch to inch and a half below the bottom of the boat. So it is possible for us with our set ups to run 2" of water. We run in less than 2" of water sometimes ( which leads to everyone in the boat getting out and helping to push the boat off of the gravel bar we just firmly planted on)lol. That shallow of water is not ur optimal running conditions ( impellers are expensive) but when the time and place comes we can and do. There are a few places on our river you could measure the shoal at 100 to 300 yards that is that shallow, the best fishin holes and bikini hangouts are above these shoals so we push on and go through the skinny water because that's what we do. Now for slightly modified most famous words from NASCAR. Carry on gentlemen!!!

(Disclaimer: This message was brought to you with very low funding and a ligh heart involved. I am in no way shape or form a paid actor or liable for any damages that may result from this post. I do not want to argue with nay sayers that say it's not possible ( but I will) Everyone just enjoy and carry on the interesting conversation and if enough controversy carry's on there might just have to be a video made ( which is the only reason I ever believed how bad the Susky is, how is the flooding up there by the way, I know it's a side note and this is just a free speaking disclaimer now but the question fit into place) This now concludes this broadcast. In the event of an actual emergency more information will follow)))))))))))))

BUMBLE B TUNA!

 

[Darkside]

Lil Blue, if you do a web search on my name with the word outboard jet "chris gorsuch outboard jet" you'll find I'm a long term fan of Outboard Jets. Actually smallmouth bass, but jetting was a means to reaching them.

I've been helping outboard jetters get their feet wet for nearly 20 years, most who believe the hype most dealers give them on how shallow a boat will go. Just letting them know that there's a lot of statements that might lead them into a loss or worse yet injury.

What I am warning new readers and new buyers about is likely what you're saying as well. You're not likely going to buy a john boat, put an outboard jet on it and likely run the depths the originator of this posts needs. It doesn't mean that a tunnel hull or specialized craft might not push the limits of shallow water, but it's not something most step into.

Apologize for stepping off on the wrong foot. But you know as well as I, that you need a great deal of knowledge to get the speeds and performance you guys are getting out there with your OBJ's. Unfortunately, those set-ups are as dialed into a specific kind of water as the tanks and armor we run here in the east. Neither would work if switched to the other's water LOL.

-Darkside (AKA OBjet)

 

[andrewt]

After my great burst of comedic relief above you make me have to admit, out of the box boats, your right, they need 2.5" of water (lol) , No out of the box boats need a little bit more water but tune em in and tell your passengers to hang on and shut up, or hang on and enjoy the ride depeneding on how much you like them, the choice is ultimately up to the driver. Cheers.

(Disclaimer: scroll up and read disclaimer from previous post, I can't come up with that much new funny stuff in one night)

 

[optaylor823]

Darkside, If you are Chris, then I can tell rest of the guys here that you have helped lots of people with jets and you mean no harm. You just like to talk about both sides of the story and let others hear about it, which I appreciate because I have learned a lot listening to you talk about jet outboards. Also I think I know why you have the name Darkside, because I see Delakid has your old Snyder.

As far as the original post here. I believe he can learn a lot here and also needs to do plenty of reading before setting up a jet. I set my first jet up years ago and I am now on my 3rd one and still could change things, but want get into that.