Yamaha 25 vs Tohatsu 25 vs Suzuki 25

[jasper60103]

Can you post a model number?

The model number for the Suzuki is DF25A with manual start and tilt assist. The dealer said I can add electric start easily but I’m not so sure about that being easy. He also said that you tilt the motor to the desired position you like and you can run the motor WOT in that position. I thought tilt assist was just for shallow water drive or slow speeds only.

I've had my df30a only for one season and very pleased with it.
This is my first new motor and plan to keep it for many years, hopefully.
I had my old 30hp Johnson for 8 years and got tired of playing mechanic the last couple seasons.
Anyway,
I say if you plan to keep it for a while.
Save up and get what you want.
I had electric start on my old johnson motor. So I couldn't go back.
Power tilt and trim is new to me, but I appreciate it.
Just my opinion.

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[turbotodd]

some of the newer EFI manual start motors can honestly be easily changed to electric start. HOWEVER...what is the cost of doing it, and does the additional cost make it prohibitive? I do not know. I have not priced the process. I do know that yamaha offers an electric start conversion kit for the F9.9 now, right from Yamaha so you know it's all the right stuff. I want to say that it's about $500 but could be wrong. I'd certainly like to have electric start though. That would be #1 on the list, especially after having several rope start motors, including a mid 80's Evinrude 9.9 that was supposedly real easy to start. It did start good, but it took a LOT more effort than this 25 yamaha I have now, and the 25 I had before it as well.

 

[turbotodd]

I got a chance to look at the suzuki DF25A.

The tiller handle is short! Also it doesn't have VTS (variable trolling switch)....VTS adjusts RPM up or down in 50RPM increments, without touching the throttle grip. Push the switch + to increase (up to 1050 rpm) and push the switch to the - symbol, it'll go down to 750 RPM I think it is. May be 700. It's a feature that is NICE to have (and I didn't think I'd ever use it). The switch is right in the tiller handle. Easy access. Yamaha's got a 16A charging system, suzuki 14A. Yamaha's lightest model is 10 lbs lighter than the lightest suzuki. Electric start short shaft suzuki is 143 lbs. Yamaha electric start short shaft is 132 (I weighed mine). Yamaha's tiller handle is mounted at an angle to the front of the motor, which makes it easy to access, to control, it just feels more natural. Suzuki is mostly straight and as mentioned looks short.

Why is it that whenever you look up suzuki specifications, you're directed to a lot of worldwide web pages? There's one or two USA pages and the rest are non-USA? Perhaps the USA marketing department doesn't feel like the DF25A will be a big seller? I don't know. I know a LITTLE about suzuki and though I liked a lot of the stuff they put out, I just can't get excited about buying something that may need product support.

For those who might be intested in speed, usually the manufacturers put a one-size-fits-most prop on the 25's. Yamaha comes with a 3x9 7/8x11 1/4" (11 1/4" pitch) and suzuki comes with a 3x9 1/4x10 (10" pitch). That tells me right there that the suzuki is going to be a couple mph slower than the yamaha; and/or they have to use the 10" to get it out of the hole due to, oh I don't know, lack of low end torque? It don't make any sense since it's a 493cc 3 cylinder and the yamaha's just a little 432cc twin cylinder.

 

[blackshear]

Would the Suzuki manual start have a charging system? If I added a starter and solenoid would I still need to add an alternator for the charging system?

As nice of a motor as the Suzuki is I’m still leaning towards getting the Yamaha. If my dealer can get one ordered before the rebate expires.

 

[turbotodd]

Would the Suzuki manual start have a charging system? If I added a starter and solenoid would I still need to add an alternator for the charging system?

As nice of a motor as the Suzuki is I’m still leaning towards getting the Yamaha. If my dealer can get one ordered before the rebate expires.

Being that the suzuki has EFI, it shoul have some sort of charging system to run the EFI stuff. I'd like to think that it's no different than an electric start motor in that sense, but I didn't research it enough. Is it an actual batteryless EFI? I think it is. Or is a batter required? Worth asking about for sure.

 

[bcbouy]

i'm curious to know why you ruled out tohatsu? it comes with tilt/trim,multi function tiller with rev control and efi that doesn't require a battery.it also comes with the prop and it needs no electric start conversion.

 

[blackshear]

Is it an actual batteryless EFI? I think it is. Or is a battery required?

The Suzuki is battery-less

 

[blackshear]

i'm curious to know why you ruled out tohatsu? it comes with tilt/trim,multi function tiller with rev control and efi that doesn't require a battery.it also comes with the prop and it needs no electric start conversion.

The reason I ruled out the Tohatsu or Mercury in 25 hp is due to the weight.

 

[blackshear]

I ordered the Yamaha 25 with electric start today so my search is over for a 25 hp. They are all very nice motors but the weight, EFI, and price were the main deciding factors. I will let you guys know how well it performs when it arrives.

My next project is going to be updating my River-Hawk B60 to a 9.8 or 9.9. I will probably start a new thread since this one was so helpful in my decision for the 25.

Thanks to everyone who shared their input.

 

[water bouy]

I've been looking at different electric start tiller 20" for a couple of years and decided to find a 4 stroke at least 30 hp. So far Suzuki at 163 lbs (with some kind of tilt trim) looks to be the lightest 30 by a wide margin. Everything else seems to be 180 to 220 lbs. Not entirely given up on the idea of a 2 stroke 3 cyl yamaha but boy those are hard to find around here.

 

[fishonsc]

I am all for buying new but would it not be cheaper to just put a Bob's machine shop tilt and trim on your current engine?

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[wmk0002]

I ordered the Yamaha 25 with electric start today so my search is over for a 25 hp. They are all very nice motors but the weight, EFI, and price were the main deciding factors. I will let you guys know how well it performs when it arrives.

My next project is going to be updating my River-Hawk B60 to a 9.8 or 9.9. I will probably start a new thread since this one was so helpful in my decision for the 25.

Thanks to everyone who shared their input.

When you ordered, was their any talk on the available options for the tiller handle? Reading up on the model on Yamaha's website, they make it sound like there is an option to upgrade to some multi function tiller handle over the standard one. However, both have the variable troll speed setting plus everything else so I'm not sure what the difference would even be.


Standard Tiller Handle

Multi-Function Tiller Handle

 

[blackshear]

I am all for buying new but would it not be cheaper to just put a Bob's machine shop tilt and trim on your current engine?

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I did consider that option but I wanted a lighter motor and felt like hanging the old one off the back of the boat by 4-5 inches with the tilt and trim plate would have made my boat draft deeper. I fish and hunt in a shallow water lake.

 

[blackshear]

When you ordered, was their any talk on the available options for the tiller handle? Reading up on the model on Yamaha's website, they make it sound like there is an option to upgrade to some multi function tiller handle over the standard one. However, both have the variable troll speed setting plus everything else so I'm not sure what the difference would even be.

I was not made aware of any options other than power tilt and trim. To get the trim I would have to order the remote model, a kit for the tiller handle, an install kit, plus the labor. The cost was way too high for me to go that route. Yamaha really needs to offer the trim with the tiller handle installed at the factory. It would have to be much cheaper that way. I figure they will offer that option about a month or so after I receive mine.

It will take 2-3 weeks to get here. i will post speeds and performance with the old F25 and the new F25 on my 648 War Eagle.

 

[turbotodd]

You "can" upgrade the tiller to the MF tiller handle. However, is it worth it? It's very slightly longer and has a PT&T switch in it. That's really the only major difference, oh and it's heavier and bulkier than the factory installed tiller. HOWEVER, as mentioned, if you want PT&T, you have to order it as a remote, then install the tiller kit which comes with the MF tiller, key switch, and lanyard all built into the tiller. That makes a $3600 motor into about a $4800 motor (give or take) not counting labor. To me, as light as these things have gotten, PT&T is now mostly a luxury for "most". There's some that need it, and I understand & respect that, and I too hate how Yamaha offers it as remote only & add the tiller. But at the same time, the F30 and bigger are exactly the same way. I'm not even sure that the F30-F40 are offered in 15" length...I want to say they're 20" only. I checked into it a while back and I think it was someone at Yamaha that told me that (not the dealer, the customer service line). My boat is 16" transom so the only option was to build it up, and honestly, the F40 is shy of 100 lbs heavier than the F25 is, thus the extra power would really only be useful for holeshot, top speed wouldn't change but maybe 1 or 2 mph at the most based on my friend's rig (same boat, but 20" and with an F50). Couldn't justify spending $5500 for a heavy pig F40 when the little F25 does everything I ask of it, even if the boat's rated for 40hp.

 

[blackshear]

Should I add a water fuel separator to the new Yamaha or is the one built in sufficient?

 

[Brian121804]

Should I add a water fuel separator to the new Yamaha or is the one built in sufficient?

I added a Yamaha Mini-10 10 micron filter when I repowered with my F25.
Probably overkill for a portable fuel tank, but for ~$30 gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Mini-10-10-Micron-Assembly-MAR-MINIF/dp/B004K9JQBQ

Not necessarily recommending the seller, was just the 1st google result.

I also use Yamaha ringfree & stabilizer every tank. I generally consider such things snake oil,
but for the little that I use...

 

[turbotodd]

98% of the outboard work I do is fuel system issues. Also Yamaha, when doing a predelivery inspection on a new motor/boat, the checklist has a spot to check that says "equipped with 10 micron fuel filter"...I assume that if one is installed and that box is checked, that Yamaha looks at any particular warranty repair down the road a little differently. Makes sense to me. With the amount of fuel system problems I see daily, yes I suggest a mini-10 filter.

 

[blackshear]

98% of the outboard work I do is fuel system issues. Also Yamaha, when doing a predelivery inspection on a new motor/boat, the checklist has a spot to check that says "equipped with 10 micron fuel filter"...I assume that if one is installed and that box is checked, that Yamaha looks at any particular warranty repair down the road a little differently. Makes sense to me. With the amount of fuel system problems I see daily, yes I suggest a mini-10 filter.

I will definitely add the Mini-10 filter. Any recommendations on fuel additives? With my 2-strokes I used Stabil or Startron and Yamaha Ring Free with Non-Ethanol gas. I still plan on using Non-Ethanol gas and Starton but not sure if Ring Free is still the best additive for a EFI system.

 

[fishonsc]

You "can" upgrade the tiller to the MF tiller handle. However, is it worth it? It's very slightly longer and has a PT&T switch in it. That's really the only major difference, oh and it's heavier and bulkier than the factory installed tiller. HOWEVER, as mentioned, if you want PT&T, you have to order it as a remote, then install the tiller kit which comes with the MF tiller, key switch, and lanyard all built into the tiller. That makes a $3600 motor into about a $4800 motor (give or take) not counting labor. To me, as light as these things have gotten, PT&T is now mostly a luxury for "most". There's some that need it, and I understand & respect that, and I too hate how Yamaha offers it as remote only & add the tiller. But at the same time, the F30 and bigger are exactly the same way. I'm not even sure that the F30-F40 are offered in 15" length...I want to say they're 20" only. I checked into it a while back and I think it was someone at Yamaha that told me that (not the dealer, the customer service line). My boat is 16" transom so the only option was to build it up, and honestly, the F40 is shy of 100 lbs heavier than the F25 is, thus the extra power would really only be useful for holeshot, top speed wouldn't change but maybe 1 or 2 mph at the most based on my friend's rig (same boat, but 20" and with an F50). Couldn't justify spending $5500 for a heavy pig F40 when the little F25 does everything I ask of it, even if the boat's rated for 40hp.

Something not right with his boat then. My buddy has a 1648 seaark with the Yamaha 25hp. I have the same boat with the tohatsu 40hp. I will blow him out of the water. He tops out around 25mph. I can hit 35mph.

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