MMF'S-1990 Tracker TX-17 Alum Build (FINAL PIX 10/22/11)

[mmf]

Weather has turned cold here, supposed to be down to 28 degrees tomorrow night. Lots of tornado activity yesterday evening with the temperature at 71 degrees. Waiting for a little warmer day to fish if it happens when I'm off.

Also wanted to wish EVERY TINBOATER and your families, a very HAPPY THANKSGIVING as well!!!

 

[PSG-1]

Wow, amazing work, mmf! Hadn't noticed this thread until just today, as there was a new post to it. I checked it out from page 1, and I have to say, you've got a good bit of time and effort in that boat, but it really looks good! =D>

BTW, here's a useful bit of info: if you're cutting aluminum with a circular saw, you need a "Diablo" blade. It will make the job much easier. You should be able to find one at a Lowe's or a Home Depot. They are red in color, and they are about half as thick as a regular circular saw blade, which equals a smaller kerf, but more importantly, it also means there is less resistance on the motor of the saw, which equals faster cuts with less effort. If you are cutting 1/8" plate, get the fine tooth type. But on thicker aluminum, like 3/16 or 1/4", get a more coarse tooth, like a framing cut blade. These diablo blades are simply awesome for cutting aluminum.


Cold night here on the SC coast, too, gonna be 34 degrees tonight. Still a little too warm to fire up the snow guns, but cold enough I have the wood stove going. Well, considering turkey day is next week, it's about time for some cool weather here. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, too!

 

[mmf]

Wow, amazing work, mmf! Hadn't noticed this thread until just today, as there was a new post to it. I checked it out from page 1, and I have to say, you've got a good bit of time and effort in that boat, but it really looks good! =D>

BTW, here's a useful bit of info: if you're cutting aluminum with a circular saw, you need a "Diablo" blade. It will make the job much easier. You should be able to find one at a Lowe's or a Home Depot. They are red in color, and they are about half as thick as a regular circular saw blade, which equals a smaller kerf, but more importantly, it also means there is less resistance on the motor of the saw, which equals faster cuts with less effort. If you are cutting 1/8" plate, get the fine tooth type. But on thicker aluminum, like 3/16 or 1/4", get a more coarse tooth, like a framing cut blade. These diablo blades are simply awesome for cutting aluminum.


Cold night here on the SC coast, too, gonna be 34 degrees tonight. Still a little too warm to fire up the snow guns, but cold enough I have the wood stove going. Well, considering turkey day is next week, it's about time for some cool weather here. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, too!

Thanks for the compliments and the info on the "diablo" blade, I will definately check them out at Lowes.
PS.......did you check out my 24ft L X 8ft W Sea ark? I have thought many times about making it into a jet boat someday, just don't have the funds now. I really like your jet boat build videos, very informative too! I like your 4-stroke revision =P~ a lot better than the 2 cycle!

 

[Loggerhead Mike]

Looks good bud, I bet running 45 is a blast in that rig

 

[PSG-1]

Thanks for the compliments and the info on the "diablo" blade, I will definately check them out at Lowes.
PS.......did you check out my 24ft L X 8ft W Sea ark? I have thought many times about making it into a jet boat someday, just don't have the funds now. I really like your jet boat build videos, very informative too! I like your 4-stroke revision =P~ a lot better than the 2 cycle!

I saw that Sea Ark, that's a HUGE aluminum boat! Actually had a customer a couple of months ago with a boat just like that, he had some issues with his trailer, a leaf spring broke going down the highway. They brought it to me on a roll-back wrecker, the trailer was so wide, it barely fit on the bed of the roll-back...LOL

Replaced his springs and U-bolts, and fixed a few other things while he had it here. Anyhow, as I was working on the trailer, I couldn't get over how big that boat was!

I remember thinking "wow, this thing has a wide enough beam, you could just about put triple inboard jets in here!" (Well, it might be a little tight for 3 engines, but it's definitely wide enough to install 2 engines.)

If you ever decide to modify it as a jet boat, give me a holler if you have any questions or run into any issues.

Thanks for the feedback on my videos, glad you enjoyed them. We had fun putting it all together, and acting silly and dysfunctional like the guys at American Chopper :LOL2: The 4 stroke is a night and day difference from the old 2 stroke, you got that right!

Wish I had just done that to start with, but then again, when I first built the boat in 2005, it was a gamble and a leap of faith, I wasn't even sure if it was going to work (but I had every suspicion that it would work, despite a few naysayers who doubted it)...so, I kept myself on a minimal budget, in case things didn't work out, I didn't have a ton of money invested. Also, back in 2005, those 4 stroke engines were still relatively new, more expensive, and less available for doing projects like this.

On a final note: when we decide to do "Season 3" of our 'American Jetboat' series, we're going to use a 4 stroke, 215 HP intercooled supercharged Sea Doo engine, maybe even 2 of them, for a total of 430 HP. Since these engines have closed loop cooling systems, you can run across sandbars, and never have to worry about running the engine hot from ingesting sand through the pump.

 

[mmf]

Thanks for the compliments and the info on the "diablo" blade, I will definately check them out at Lowes.
PS.......did you check out my 24ft L X 8ft W Sea ark? I have thought many times about making it into a jet boat someday, just don't have the funds now. I really like your jet boat build videos, very informative too! I like your 4-stroke revision =P~ a lot better than the 2 cycle!

I saw that Sea Ark, that's a HUGE aluminum boat! Actually had a customer a couple of months ago with a boat just like that, he had some issues with his trailer, a leaf spring broke going down the highway. They brought it to me on a roll-back wrecker, the trailer was so wide, it barely fit on the bed of the roll-back...LOL

Replaced his springs and U-bolts, and fixed a few other things while he had it here. Anyhow, as I was working on the trailer, I couldn't get over how big that boat was!

I remember thinking "wow, this thing has a wide enough beam, you could just about put triple inboard jets in here!" (Well, it might be a little tight for 3 engines, but it's definitely wide enough to install 2 engines.)

If you ever decide to modify it as a jet boat, give me a holler if you have any questions or run into any issues.

Thanks for the feedback on my videos, glad you enjoyed them. We had fun putting it all together, and acting silly and dysfunctional like the guys at American Chopper :LOL2: The 4 stroke is a night and day difference from the old 2 stroke, you got that right!

Wish I had just done that to start with, but then again, when I first built the boat in 2005, it was a gamble and a leap of faith, I wasn't even sure if it was going to work (but I had every suspicion that it would work, despite a few naysayers who doubted it)...so, I kept myself on a minimal budget, in case things didn't work out, I didn't have a ton of money invested. Also, back in 2005, those 4 stroke engines were still relatively new, more expensive, and less available for doing projects like this.

On a final note: when we decide to do "Season 3" of our 'American Jetboat' series, we're going to use a 4 stroke, 215 HP intercooled supercharged Sea Doo engine, maybe even 2 of them, for a total of 430 HP. Since these engines have closed loop cooling systems, you can run across sandbars, and never have to worry about running the engine hot from ingesting sand through the pump.

Thanks for the info PSG-1, I am very interested in the 4 stroke 215HP seadoo engine and drive, do you know what model number Seado's use this engine? Are you referring to the supercharged rotax motor? It would be nice to find one on a damaged hull or someone parting one out! I really like the idea of the closed cooling system.

 

[PSG-1]

MMF, I forget the model number of the Sea Doo that uses that engine, but yes, that's the one I'm referring to, the "4Tec" 215 HP Rotax with the supercharger. I'm thinking it's the "GTX" model, but I might be wrong.

It's like a vehicle, it uses a coolant reservoir, but instead of a radiator, the ride plate at the jet pump is actually a heat exchanger plate....I'm guessing it's a double wall construction, with internal fins or perhaps an internal honeycomb design. So, as long as that ride plate is in the water and the internal coolant pump of the engine is circulating coolant, you can't run it hot.

Of course, if you sit there and grind across sandbars continuously, it will wear out the prop, or more likely, the wear ring (Sea Doo uses a plastic liner in their wear ring, I'm not so sure I would use a Sea Doo pump, for that reason) As long as the jet unit tunnel is designed so that the factory Sea Doo ride plate can be attached, I would think you could use any jet pump you wanted to use.

I like the idea of the closed loop system, too, as I often leave my boat in the water (I pull it up onto a sport port to flush the engine, and then slide it back off and tie up to the dock) With the closed loops system, I could at least leave it in the water overnight, without worrying about flushing it.

 

[mmf]

MMF, I forget the model number of the Sea Doo that uses that engine, but yes, that's the one I'm referring to, the "4Tec" 215 HP Rotax with the supercharger. I'm thinking it's the "GTX" model, but I might be wrong.

It's like a vehicle, it uses a coolant reservoir, but instead of a radiator, the ride plate at the jet pump is actually a heat exchanger plate....I'm guessing it's a double wall construction, with internal fins or perhaps an internal honeycomb design. So, as long as that ride plate is in the water and the internal coolant pump of the engine is circulating coolant, you can't run it hot.

Of course, if you sit there and grind across sandbars continuously, it will wear out the prop, or more likely, the wear ring (Sea Doo uses a plastic liner in their wear ring, I'm not so sure I would use a Sea Doo pump, for that reason) As long as the jet unit tunnel is designed so that the factory Sea Doo ride plate can be attached, I would think you could use any jet pump you wanted to use.

I like the idea of the closed loop system, too, as I often leave my boat in the water (I pull it up onto a sport port to flush the engine, and then slide it back off and tie up to the dock) With the closed loops system, I could at least leave it in the water overnight, without worrying about flushing it.

PSG-1,....Hmmm, I wish I was more fimiliar with jet drives than I am. I am wondering if my 24' jon would be more suited to a berkley pump and a standard marine inboard engine, though I know the latter will NOT turn the RPM's the jet ski motors will, maybe a standard motor would last alittle longer, what are your thoughts?
Seems like even the 215HP engine you are talkin about might even push a 24 ft'er fairly well, I don't know. I have not have good luck with superchargers in the past from my car racing days, I had the turbines freeze up etc. on some of my hot rods........just a thought

 

[PSG-1]

It's hard to say which jet pump would be best for pushing that 24' boat. But I'm certain if you went with something like a Berkeley Jet pump, you'd need a bigger engine to turn it, as it would probably over-lug the Sea Doo engine.

But then again, one single Sea Doo engine also might not be enough to push that boat, either. It might require twin engines. You'll need to know the weight of your hull VS. the weight of the Sea Doo GTX to know if it's comparable. But I'm thinking with that amount of surface area, it's going to be too much load on one engine.

And as far as superchargers, you're right, they can be problematic. Sea Doo engines have had issues with the supercharger units, usually from ingesting water, the vanes of the supercharger pump don't fare too well when they meet water. I need to do a little research and find out the specifics, and see if they have that bug worked out.

 

[mmf]

It's hard to say which jet pump would be best for pushing that 24' boat. But I'm certain if you went with something like a Berkeley Jet pump, you'd need a bigger engine to turn it, as it would probably over-lug the Sea Doo engine.

But then again, one single Sea Doo engine also might not be enough to push that boat, either. It might require twin engines. You'll need to know the weight of your hull VS. the weight of the Sea Doo GTX to know if it's comparable. But I'm thinking with that amount of surface area, it's going to be too much load on one engine.

And as far as superchargers, you're right, they can be problematic. Sea Doo engines have had issues with the supercharger units, usually from ingesting water, the vanes of the supercharger pump don't fare too well when they meet water. I need to do a little research and find out the specifics, and see if they have that bug worked out.

The present 4-stroke engine you have in your jon now seems to run great but I did not catch the model number or "nickname" for the motor in your videos.

 

[PSG-1]

The engine I'm using is Yamaha's "MR-1" High Output engine. This engine came out of a Yamaha SX230 jetboat. They are also used in the Yamaha FX HO cruiser jet skis. I got a deal on mine, for 2500 dollars, which included the CDI unit, and everything except the fuel pump and waterbox.

It's 1052 cc's, with 4 cylinders. Basically, it's the marine version of Yamaha's R-1 motorcycle engine. It puts out 160 HP (stock) at 10,000 RPM.

However, I have the Riva Racing air filter and the velocity stacks installed, that gains about 5-7 HP.

Also, I do not have the secondary muffler system that Yamaha uses on their jet skis, I run straight from the waterbox into the jet unit. The secondary muffler creates more back pressure, and also causes engine temps to run higher, as it holds water in the system longer. Riva racing makes a conversion kit that basically does the same thing I did with my boat, bypass the secondary muffler system, and this gains about 5 HP.

So, with the air cleaner and the exhaust bypass mods, I'm actually running somewhere between 170-175 HP.

 

[mmf]

The engine I'm using is Yamaha's "MR-1" High Output engine. This engine came out of a Yamaha SX230 jetboat. They are also used in the Yamaha FX HO cruiser jet skis. I got a deal on mine, for 2500 dollars, which included the CDI unit, and everything except the fuel pump and waterbox.

It's 1052 cc's, with 4 cylinders. Basically, it's the marine version of Yamaha's R-1 motorcycle engine. It puts out 160 HP (stock) at 10,000 RPM.

However, I have the Riva Racing air filter and the velocity stacks installed, that gains about 5-7 HP.

Also, I do not have the secondary muffler system that Yamaha uses on their jet skis, I run straight from the waterbox into the jet unit. The secondary muffler creates more back pressure, and also causes engine temps to run higher, as it holds water in the system longer. Riva racing makes a conversion kit that basically does the same thing I did with my boat, bypass the secondary muffler system, and this gains about 5 HP.

So, with the air cleaner and the exhaust bypass mods, I'm actually running somewhere between 170-175 HP.

Thanks, PSG-1, It would seem that just the setup you installed should push my big jon, since the HP is from 160-175HP. I presently have a 150 HP Black Max outboard on it and it will FLY close to 60MPH on the water. I don't necessarily care so much for "flying" on the water, I am only a fisherman so moderate speeds suit me just fine. I have had my fill of high powered boats over the years (455 and 427 big block jet boats etc) so performance is a thing of the past for me, I basically just like the thought of being able to go in the very shallow water etc. that your boat can. Here in NC, the rivers are well drawn down 4-5 ft of their normal level in winter and alot of my favorite fishing spots are very hard or impossible to get to with a standard O/B setup. I am very interested in the longivity of the motor on your boat, I hope that it holds up for a long time. If you think my boat is too much for a setup like yours, maybe I might try to find me a used 18 ft Sea Ark jon to do the conversion on. I really like Sea Ark's construction compared to alot of others, especially the 1/8" (0.125) hull construction, these boats are VERY solid and seaworthy. Comments?....thanks again for your replies!

 

[PSG-1]

MMF, as far as longevity of the Yamaha 4 strokes, I've read posts on the PWC forums from owners who have over 3000 hours on their engines with no issues, other than routine maintenance. With 2 stroke PWC engines, you're lucky if you get just 1000 hours on the engine before having to rebuild it. So, triple the life expectancy with the 4 stroke. I'm a long way from that, with just 105 hours on my engine!

Also, remember that a 150 HP jet is NOT the same as a 150 HP outboard with a prop. Jets can lose up to 50% efficiency. So, while the 150 outboard may push that 24 foot boat with no problem, it's hard for me to be able to say what a 160 HP MR-1 engine with a jet drive would do. I do know that there are 2 of those engines in the 23 foot Yamaha Jetboat, and that boat weighs about 3000 pounds dry weight. The boat is rated for 6 passengers (if I remember correctly) So, I'm thinking the max load on each engine is about 2000-2400 lbs. Beyond that load rating, it might be over-lugging the engine, which is definitely not good.

If you don't have a mfg. spec. on the weight of your hull, you might be able to drive the trailer with the boat loaded on it, onto the scales at the metal scrapyard, then weigh it one time without the boat on it, and subtract the difference to get the approximate weight of your boat.

That said, I'm pretty certain that it would be a non-issue with the 18 foot boat.

Either way, if you decide to do such a build, let me know if you have any questions or issues. Having done this twice, with 2 different engine configurations, I've figured out just about every idiosyncrasy that's involved with such a project.

 

[mmf]

Well, I have decided I do not personally like the tracker style bass boat so I am going to sell it. I am listing it in the for sale section and also I will list it on craigslist locally (Charlotte, NC) as well. I am more suited with the open style jonboat than I am with decks etc. that your typical bass fisher uses. I will list it tomorrow as I am wore out from fishing today before the cold front comes thru tomorrow. I will post some fish pics too from today's crappie fishing expidition tomorrow, anyone want to help me clean fish tomorrow?

 

[PSG-1]

Wow, mmf. After all that work you put into that boat, you're actually going to part with it? Well, all I can say is whoever gets that boat is getting one helluva boat, for sure! Definitely can't buy something like that from the factory.

 

[mmf]

Wow, mmf. After all that work you put into that boat, you're actually going to part with it? Well, all I can say is whoever gets that boat is getting one helluva boat, for sure! Definitely can't buy something like that from the factory.

Yep, selling it,hard work is part of the trade,it is a good boat, it's just me that does not like the bass boat style, I like wide spacious open boats. I mainly traded with my buddy so he could have a good working boat to fish out of. I am hunting another Sea Ark super jon from 16-20 ft. Thanks for the compliments PSG-1, I know someone will be wanting the boat by spring but for now I will make use of it.

Raining here for the past 2 days and now the COLD front is moving in, suppose to be in the 20's this
weekend with the high of 50. I am planning going back to crappie fish Saturday but I will have to wear some warm stuff then for sure!

 

[PSG-1]

It cooled off fast here, too. I was out in the boat yesterday, wearing a T-shirt. Although it was nice and warm, the wind was blowing like crazy, I had a helluva time trying to keep the boat straight while I was trolling. There's a lot of small trout out here this fall....I think last winter killed off a lot of the larger ones, hopefully, this winter, the water temp will stay above that critical 45 degree mark, so it won't hurt the trout or shrimp populations.

When the front went through yesterday about sunset, the temp dropped about 15 degrees in about 5 minutes. It's about 40 outside right now.

My 16' triton is on a boat lift right now, getting a new coat of interprotect and anti-fouling paint. I also had some issues with corrosion on the center strake, and had to do some patchwork with ceramic grout to fill in the pitting. I guess that's the consequence of having a boat that sits in the salt water for 300+ days a year. I'm just glad I caught it in time, before it went all the way through the base metal and started leaking. Once it gets to that point, the only way to fix it is by capping it with a piece of aluminum angle.

So, while the triton is out of commission, the jetboat is getting some use.

 

[mmf]

A couple of BAD videos crappie fishing on Lake Wylie, NC last weekend. My brother Sam does not know how to use his video camera, but here are some links of videos anyway......
My other fishing buddy, Mark is in the boat beside us with his son, JR, we were shooting the docks with crappie jigs........

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/x7ggSOzerk6Wloqm_03GHNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=email

https://picasaweb.google.com/104150053062462706092/20111218#5688032050305663330

https://picasaweb.google.com/104150053062462706092/20111218#5688032041317544882

 

[mmf]

MMF, as far as longevity of the Yamaha 4 strokes, I've read posts on the PWC forums from owners who have over 3000 hours on their engines with no issues, other than routine maintenance. With 2 stroke PWC engines, you're lucky if you get just 1000 hours on the engine before having to rebuild it. So, triple the life expectancy with the 4 stroke. I'm a long way from that, with just 105 hours on my engine!

Also, remember that a 150 HP jet is NOT the same as a 150 HP outboard with a prop. Jets can lose up to 50% efficiency. So, while the 150 outboard may push that 24 foot boat with no problem, it's hard for me to be able to say what a 160 HP MR-1 engine with a jet drive would do. I do know that there are 2 of those engines in the 23 foot Yamaha Jetboat, and that boat weighs about 3000 pounds dry weight. The boat is rated for 6 passengers (if I remember correctly) So, I'm thinking the max load on each engine is about 2000-2400 lbs. Beyond that load rating, it might be over-lugging the engine, which is definitely not good.

If you don't have a mfg. spec. on the weight of your hull, you might be able to drive the trailer with the boat loaded on it, onto the scales at the metal scrapyard, then weigh it one time without the boat on it, and subtract the difference to get the approximate weight of your boat.

That said, I'm pretty certain that it would be a non-issue with the 18 foot boat.

Either way, if you decide to do such a build, let me know if you have any questions or issues. Having done this twice, with 2 different engine configurations, I've figured out just about every idiosyncrasy that's involved with such a project.

PSG-1, I did some investigating on my 24' hull and Sea Ark site says the hullweight is 775 lbs.,a lot less than I thought it would weigh.

 

[PSG-1]

Wow, that's an impressive shot!

As far as power to weight.....

My duracraft 1648SV weighs in at 425 lbs (factory)

50 pounds for the false bottom.

Figure in another 75 pounds for the 1/4" engine plate, the mount rails, the jet unit, and the jet unit tunnel.

Another 75 for the console, all wiring, and cables.

22 gallons of fuel, roughly 225 lbs (also accounting for the weight of the aluminum tanks)

Marine battery at 50 pounds.

And then the weight of the engine, I'm not sure what the High Output weighs, but I'm going to guess and say at least 300 pounds.


OK, so that comes out to about 900 pounds for the boat and everything in it, then, another 300 for the engine itself, for a total of 1200 pounds. And you see that even with this amount of weight, my boat has some serious throttle response.


Your boat weighs 775.

Add another 300 for the engine for 1075.



Then whatever you add beyond that. I would say as long as you can keep the total weight under 1400-1500, it should be fine.