Florida_Native said:
jy951 said:
I saw the info on that new yamaha 25 also the other day. Its about time they made it fuel injected. I believe the the honda is still carbureted. I'm sure many like carbs, but I'll take fuel injection any day. I went shopping for a new 25 several years ago and it was the etec by a huge margin. If I had to buy a new 25 today, I'd take the etec. Assuming all stock motors, I doubt you'll find a more powerful 25. No maintenance for 3 years, no timing belts, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc.
It was basically fuel injected before. Yes it does have a carburetor, but there is no choke. You just prime the primer ball and it's ready to start.
And again, the ETEC is no better than any of the 4 stroke offerings. It's heavy (for a 2 stroke), complex, takes special oil unless it's "tuned" by the selling dealer, ugly, etc. What is that thing? 160 lbs? Come on...I thought the main selling point of sticking with a 2 stroke was lighter weight. Blew that right out of the water. No timing belt. When's the last time anyone's heard of a 25hp Yamaha needing a timing belt? I've replaced ONE in the 25 years I've messed with motors, and only because Mr. Customer requested it (there was nothing wrong with the OEM belt). Valve adjustment? When I worked at the dealer, we sold about 400 F25's. Out of those, I think maybe 10 had valve adjustments...or more specifically valve CHECK. I don't recall having to adjust them, usually spot on. Mine is the same way.
There's a lot more bad info on this site than one can shake a stick at, and it's not just from one user. What I see a lot of is folks that are die hard 2 smokers spewing their biased opinions, among other things. One user said a Yamaha 2 stroke twin carb 25 was a turd. Compared to what? A 3 cylinder? They both make 25hp bone stock....seen it on a dyno with my own eyes. Just the same as all of the 4 stroke motors with the exception of the new 25, seen them all make 25hp on a dyno. One user says a 2 stroke will spin a 15" prop. True. But let's not forget that some 2 stroke motors also have a higher gearcase ratio. Many have a 2.08 ratio, some were higher and those will be able to make use of more pitch. The merc big foot was one, so was the high-thrust 25hp Yamaha. Where the misconception also came in on that note was that the 2 stroke motors are a little less sensitive to prop selection...and I've seen a few that were so grossly overpropped that the owner didn't know any better, for instance a 25hp 2 stroke twin carb with a 13" SRA stuck on it. Did it turn it? Yep. Customer's complaint was that the engine overheats and goes into limp mode, but only with a heavy load. Well my goodness, lug the thing around at 4000 RPM full throttle with a load on it, at full throttle, and yes it sure can overheat. That's hard on the pistons, rings, everything actually. I gave him my spare 10 1/2" prop and told him to try it. Fixed-and went 6 mph faster with the "smaller" prop, with the same load. Wouldn't plane before. But I have no clue what I'm talking about I guess. But on the 4 stroke stuff, they're more sensitive to prop selection. MOST users/tuners think that since it comes with a 10 1/2" pitch, that a 13" should make it go 3 mph faster. Nope. Lots of times maybe 1.5 mph but more importantly it lugs the pee out of the engine, consuming more fuel, giving the user a feeling of being a slug at anything less than full throttle. No tach to verify that it's running close to where it should in most cases. I get the call often at work. "Can I put a bigger prop on for more speed"? Yep. But it might or might not go faster. What's your current maximum RPM? Response....uhhh....I don't know how do I know that? My first thought is get a tach and then call me back. Without the data, we're just shooting blanks and hoping something will hit a target. Another thing, the HULL has a LOT to do with speed. A purpose built hull, built for speed and speed only in a straight line, with a bone stock 25hp motor can easily achieve 50mph if it's set up right, with the right prop. But a jon, not likely to happen. Some jons are faster than others. Some handle better than others. But for a person to say "well my 25hp is faster than brand X" is meaningless without knowing, again, all the data. Hull type, drag, atmospheric conditions, etc. On that note, I am a member on another board and I see the 25hp arguements often. Many claimed that their bone stock 25hp motors on their Edge 550 will go 38 mph. I called one user out because I knew he was local, and said let's go to the local lake. His response was that his boat doesn't go that fast on that lake. I'm like What? Then it came out...he was going full throttle DOWNRIVER on a local small river, which also happens to have a 8 mph current at times. So out of curiousity, I ran mine...mine's typically 29.5-29.8 on the right water conditions, at 6200 RPM. GPS upriver averaged 24 mph. Down river, in the current, 36. Stopped, shut motor off and measured current drifting speed-7.8 mph in most areas except the 2 narrow shoals that were a hair over 8.
Listen, folks, I've been that die hard 2 stroke guy. When the 4 stroke stuff started getting sorta popular, back in the 1990's, I said I'd never own one. I worked on one or two Honda's (carbs usually), worked on a Yamaha or two, usually maintenance related (rarely a repair), but continued to use my twin carb 25, and very seldom my 3 cylinder 25. In '06 I believe, I run across a guy who had a F25 on a Grumman 1542, for a great price. Figured I'd buy the whole rig and sell the motor. It sat it's entire life, used less than 1 hour every year to run from the ramp to a duck blind across the river. I got it running and decided I had to try it out. About 3 months later I sold my twin carb 25, no use for it after falling in love with the 4 stroke. And that's what I said too, I didn't want no oil change hassle, no adjustment, belt, weight...but I'm here to tell ya, from my own personal experience, that it's worth the "extra hassle"-which again is so minute that it's ridiculous to even bring it up. It's just one more of BRP's gimmicks so that they can justify their 2 stroke, and many have embraced it. And in my case, it ain't just Yamaha...I also have had a Tohatsu 25 at one point, a Tohatsu 20hp (with power tilt), a Honda 25hp, and for a brief while, had access to a Merc 25 (tohatsu). I like the 3 cylinder motors a little better but it comes at a cost....weight (and lots of it).
