I saw the info on that new yamaha 25 also the other day. Its about time they made it fuel injected. I believe the the honda is still carbureted. I'm sure many like carbs, but I'll take fuel injection any day. I went shopping for a new 25 several years ago and it was the etec by a huge margin. If I had to buy a new 25 today, I'd take the etec. Assuming all stock motors, I doubt you'll find a more powerful 25. No maintenance for 3 years, no timing belts, valve adjustments, oil changes, etc.
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New 2017 25hp 4 stroke efi yamaha
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Classic25
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I was also very interested in the new F25 efi until I stumbled upon a brand new 2016 leftover F25 longshaft with electric start for $2700 which also has the 3 year Yami warranty. The cost savings was enough for me to pass on the efi and stick with the carbed model. Im also interested to see how people like the new model.
Dave
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Etec is a great outboard, but you won't find a better outboard for the money if you look in the right place for a 25hp efi suzuki. I am waiting on selling my 20hp and I found a brand new in the box 25AS suzuki, 6yr warranty for under $3k. You can't find a base model etec for less than $3500,give or take a few bucks. Then tax and then as most want the 100:1 oil ratio,that is more money for the dealer to do,so your near $4k. I guess if you plan on keeping it for a very long time it would be worth the investment but I will take $1k less any day for a proven efi outboard that is imo state of the art. You will get the same speed and that 3rd cylinder should give you just as much torque as the etec. No doubt the 25hp etec is nice though. Also no using oil as with the suzuki it's once every 100hrs. Good 2 stroke oil is not cheap but a quart and a half of oil and a filter once a yr is. But to each their own. I love yamaha to but imo well overpriced. If it was reasonably priced I may consider it.
The way engines are built today their all about equal. It comes down to features. The etec tiller is really in a sweet spot also,right in the middle,that could be a huge deciding factor for someone also. Features,features,features and price is what it comes down to.
The Yamaha should move your boat at least 30+mph I would think. The one thing you don't want to do as much as you will want to is,don't baby your engine,run it hard asap. Get a good 10 minute cycle at home or on the lake where you run it in idle speed for 10 minutes to get all the oil circulated and the engine warm and run that thing. If you baby it,it will,never produce the true power it has because you will,not seat the rings. I have run all my engines hard from the box,not abuse them just vary the rpms up and down and don't be scared of wot. If you don't your rings will not seat. It's of course your call how u run it,read the print on the manual well,it is only their recommendations to basically baby it for hrs. All the nonsense you hear that they will void your warranty is just that. Your engine,you run it the way you want. I'm just giving you very good friendly advice so please don't take it wrong. Your engine must get up to full operating temperature to seat those rings. You get one shot and that is it so do some really good research on this and then do what you feel is right. You invest good money in it so you want the most out of it. Many people are starting to realize this as well,that 4 stroke rings are hard and must be pushed to seat well. Good luck and let us know how it works out.DaisyCutter said:
Well,I have been going back and forth with this 20 vs 25hp and I ran into some extra money so I am going to sell the 20hp and get the 25hp because I may not have this money again for a long time so I may as well do it now. I first have to sell my 20hp then go shopping.
Think about this for one second,we always talk about how the 25hp is only 5hp more,in reality that is true but really break it all down .
20hp suzuki is 327 CCS and weighs in at 97lbs
25hp suzuki is 489 CCS and weighs in at 136lbs but yet it's only 5hp more. I just don't understand how 5hp can add near 40lbs and a so much larger engine. We're talking about 162 more CCS for just 5hp,that makes 0 sense if you really think about it. That is why I think this yamaha is a more reasonable concept of a 25hp. It only weighs in at 126lbs and is 432 CCs,I truly believe yamaha got this right on. 5hp should not add so much weight to an engine,it just doesn't add up. For examples:
Merc 20hp 115lbs/Merc 25hp is 157lbs
Yamaha 20hp 114lbs/original 25hp 170 lbs
Tohatsu 20hp 114lbs/25hp 157lbs
Suzuki 20hp 97lbs/25hp 136lbs
Honda 20hp 106lbs/25hp 157lbs
You get my drift,a 25hp should not be able to swallow up a 20hp in size. You put a 20hp and 25hp side by side and you can fit the 20hp inside the 25hp and still more room to spare. Something is just not right,so,this is why I think yamaha has come the closest to getting it right with their new 126lbs 25hp compared to 114lb 20hp. That is a whopping 12lbs,lol. That to me is the way it should be with all 20hp going to a 25hp. They should only weigh a few lbs more,not 40,50,60lbs more. You will see 2 things imo start to change in the future, huge weight losses on these 2.5hp through a 30hp tiller. 2nd,the break in process they (RECOMMEND)KEY WORD IS RECOMMENDED will change to near no break in,because it's useless on a 4 stroke. Anyone who knows 4 strokes knows they must be run in hard from minute one and just vary the rpms,that is all that is needed. Babying any outboard from minute one is thee single worst thing you can do to it,if your rings don't seat it will never run at it's full potential and you will never have a second chance to fix that. The problem is people think not getting on an outboard is the correct way to treat your outboard when in fact these engines are designed to go balls to the walls all the time. The harder you run them the better. They have a 6000+ rpm limit for a reason,it's to run that puppy hard not to baby it. It's only a matter of time this is all going to change. I'm calling it now,lol. A lot of the manufacturers are starting to realize alot of engines that come in for issues are from making oil,fuel getting in the oil,it's caused by not getting a outboard up to temperature and fuel getting by the rings,that is why it's so,so important to run a brand new outboard aggressively from the start. This has been a huge problem for mercury so it would not suprise me that they are the first ones to do this. It's a waiting game so we will see who opens up the wave of the future, lol. Please understand, this is just my opinion, but the engines making oil through mercury is a fact and it's getting worse with time so something has to change and they know it.
Think about this for one second,we always talk about how the 25hp is only 5hp more,in reality that is true but really break it all down .
20hp suzuki is 327 CCS and weighs in at 97lbs
25hp suzuki is 489 CCS and weighs in at 136lbs but yet it's only 5hp more. I just don't understand how 5hp can add near 40lbs and a so much larger engine. We're talking about 162 more CCS for just 5hp,that makes 0 sense if you really think about it. That is why I think this yamaha is a more reasonable concept of a 25hp. It only weighs in at 126lbs and is 432 CCs,I truly believe yamaha got this right on. 5hp should not add so much weight to an engine,it just doesn't add up. For examples:
Merc 20hp 115lbs/Merc 25hp is 157lbs
Yamaha 20hp 114lbs/original 25hp 170 lbs
Tohatsu 20hp 114lbs/25hp 157lbs
Suzuki 20hp 97lbs/25hp 136lbs
Honda 20hp 106lbs/25hp 157lbs
You get my drift,a 25hp should not be able to swallow up a 20hp in size. You put a 20hp and 25hp side by side and you can fit the 20hp inside the 25hp and still more room to spare. Something is just not right,so,this is why I think yamaha has come the closest to getting it right with their new 126lbs 25hp compared to 114lb 20hp. That is a whopping 12lbs,lol. That to me is the way it should be with all 20hp going to a 25hp. They should only weigh a few lbs more,not 40,50,60lbs more. You will see 2 things imo start to change in the future, huge weight losses on these 2.5hp through a 30hp tiller. 2nd,the break in process they (RECOMMEND)KEY WORD IS RECOMMENDED will change to near no break in,because it's useless on a 4 stroke. Anyone who knows 4 strokes knows they must be run in hard from minute one and just vary the rpms,that is all that is needed. Babying any outboard from minute one is thee single worst thing you can do to it,if your rings don't seat it will never run at it's full potential and you will never have a second chance to fix that. The problem is people think not getting on an outboard is the correct way to treat your outboard when in fact these engines are designed to go balls to the walls all the time. The harder you run them the better. They have a 6000+ rpm limit for a reason,it's to run that puppy hard not to baby it. It's only a matter of time this is all going to change. I'm calling it now,lol. A lot of the manufacturers are starting to realize alot of engines that come in for issues are from making oil,fuel getting in the oil,it's caused by not getting a outboard up to temperature and fuel getting by the rings,that is why it's so,so important to run a brand new outboard aggressively from the start. This has been a huge problem for mercury so it would not suprise me that they are the first ones to do this. It's a waiting game so we will see who opens up the wave of the future, lol. Please understand, this is just my opinion, but the engines making oil through mercury is a fact and it's getting worse with time so something has to change and they know it.
Sinkingfast
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I bet ya that the higher displacement for only 5 hp on top will give much more low and mid power to get you on plane quicker. I buy not by hp but by most displacement per hp. Isn't the 25 Suz 3 cylinder...I think. For an extra 10lbs one gets an extra cylinder...if it is a 3 juger..
muddywaders
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The new Yamaha 25 will be popular with the microskiff crowd and probably a few duck hunters and is said to have similar power to the twin carb 2-stroke motor(gutless).The 25hp Suzuki is the same platform as their 30hp which costs considerably more($1500 for a different ecu!).I noticed all outboard manufacturers offer their de-rated motors for way less with the exception of the Tohatsu.Is it just marketing or are the higher output versions much more likely to fail under warranty? mw
You also have to remember, the 30hp only comes in a long shaft and is electric start and power tilt and trim so yes it is $1000 more but your getting considerably more for your money. A 25hp basic model is $3504 and the 30hp with the works is $4500. Displacement isn't everything. The 20hp 4 stroke merc/tohatsu has 351 CCs and the suzuki has 327 CCs and the suzuki imo has more power so the displacement theory is dead. It shouldn't take 162 extra CCs to add an extra 5hp,that seems senseless to me. The suzuki is a 3 cylinder to. I just don't understand the big displacement difference for a measly 5hp that is where I'm getting at. Just seems like an outboard with 162 more CCs should be like a 30 to 40hp not only 5hp more. 162CCs and 40lbs heavier only gets you 5hp,seems unrealistic. I seriously doubt that the new Yamaha 4 stroke outperforms the old 2 stroke,I just don't see it,but you never know. We would have to see the exact same boat,same size weighted person race each other with one of each outboard and see who wins. A properly maintained and perfectly tuned 25hp 2 stroke yamaha should beat the 4 stroke, if not that is a great thing imo,that means the 4 strokes are finally catching or even passing the performance of 2 strokes.
Also a perfectly tuned 25hp 2 stroke can spin a 13 to 15 pitch prop unlike a 25hp 4 stroke, not happening. With a 14 or 15 pitch prop your lucky to get on plane. My 25hp 2 stroke merc I sold easily spun a 15 pitch prop and the torque was there,I doubt a 25hp 4 stroke has the torque to spin a prop that big at least that I've seen. Most spin 12 pitch props and that is pushing it,lol.
The merc/tohatsu 25hp 4 stroke has a 526 CCs and the suzuki has 489 CCs and I guarantee you the suzuki smokes the merc. The etec has 577 CCs compared to the suzuki and again I would take the suzuki. They are really close in torque and power and the etec is 88 more CCs, kills that theory also,so while I know the old term there is no replacement for displacement may have been a very true statement in the past,today I believe it to be less important than back in the past. Some sceneries it may come into play like some of the bigger outboards, not so much on the smaller outboards anymore.
Sinkingfast
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scoobeb said:
Well..I am still looking for a car with crank windows, inline 6 with 2 speed tranny and a carb so I am old.
I was thinking in terms of BMP, not most hp. Kinda like a 300hp 454ci verses a 292ci at 300hp. But I also keep my stuff way too long..according to the wife. No, I don't say "like you?" But I am tempted...
All else equivalent I betcha the etec will put out more total gross hp during its lifespan than others today.
water bouy
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This video is a couple of years old and may or may not be relevant but I have noticed a lot of 4 strokes for sale on craigslist lately. I'm happy with an old 25 Merc XD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZvIw83uZgY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZvIw83uZgY
Florida_Native
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jy951 said:
It was basically fuel injected before. Yes it does have a carburetor, but there is no choke. You just prime the primer ball and it's ready to start.
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scoobeb said:
So what you are saying is that Yamaha (the people who manufacture the motor) don't know how to property break in an outboard? That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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Florida_Native said:
And again, the ETEC is no better than any of the 4 stroke offerings. It's heavy (for a 2 stroke), complex, takes special oil unless it's "tuned" by the selling dealer, ugly, etc. What is that thing? 160 lbs? Come on...I thought the main selling point of sticking with a 2 stroke was lighter weight. Blew that right out of the water. No timing belt. When's the last time anyone's heard of a 25hp Yamaha needing a timing belt? I've replaced ONE in the 25 years I've messed with motors, and only because Mr. Customer requested it (there was nothing wrong with the OEM belt). Valve adjustment? When I worked at the dealer, we sold about 400 F25's. Out of those, I think maybe 10 had valve adjustments...or more specifically valve CHECK. I don't recall having to adjust them, usually spot on. Mine is the same way.
There's a lot more bad info on this site than one can shake a stick at, and it's not just from one user. What I see a lot of is folks that are die hard 2 smokers spewing their biased opinions, among other things. One user said a Yamaha 2 stroke twin carb 25 was a turd. Compared to what? A 3 cylinder? They both make 25hp bone stock....seen it on a dyno with my own eyes. Just the same as all of the 4 stroke motors with the exception of the new 25, seen them all make 25hp on a dyno. One user says a 2 stroke will spin a 15" prop. True. But let's not forget that some 2 stroke motors also have a higher gearcase ratio. Many have a 2.08 ratio, some were higher and those will be able to make use of more pitch. The merc big foot was one, so was the high-thrust 25hp Yamaha. Where the misconception also came in on that note was that the 2 stroke motors are a little less sensitive to prop selection...and I've seen a few that were so grossly overpropped that the owner didn't know any better, for instance a 25hp 2 stroke twin carb with a 13" SRA stuck on it. Did it turn it? Yep. Customer's complaint was that the engine overheats and goes into limp mode, but only with a heavy load. Well my goodness, lug the thing around at 4000 RPM full throttle with a load on it, at full throttle, and yes it sure can overheat. That's hard on the pistons, rings, everything actually. I gave him my spare 10 1/2" prop and told him to try it. Fixed-and went 6 mph faster with the "smaller" prop, with the same load. Wouldn't plane before. But I have no clue what I'm talking about I guess. But on the 4 stroke stuff, they're more sensitive to prop selection. MOST users/tuners think that since it comes with a 10 1/2" pitch, that a 13" should make it go 3 mph faster. Nope. Lots of times maybe 1.5 mph but more importantly it lugs the pee out of the engine, consuming more fuel, giving the user a feeling of being a slug at anything less than full throttle. No tach to verify that it's running close to where it should in most cases. I get the call often at work. "Can I put a bigger prop on for more speed"? Yep. But it might or might not go faster. What's your current maximum RPM? Response....uhhh....I don't know how do I know that? My first thought is get a tach and then call me back. Without the data, we're just shooting blanks and hoping something will hit a target. Another thing, the HULL has a LOT to do with speed. A purpose built hull, built for speed and speed only in a straight line, with a bone stock 25hp motor can easily achieve 50mph if it's set up right, with the right prop. But a jon, not likely to happen. Some jons are faster than others. Some handle better than others. But for a person to say "well my 25hp is faster than brand X" is meaningless without knowing, again, all the data. Hull type, drag, atmospheric conditions, etc. On that note, I am a member on another board and I see the 25hp arguements often. Many claimed that their bone stock 25hp motors on their Edge 550 will go 38 mph. I called one user out because I knew he was local, and said let's go to the local lake. His response was that his boat doesn't go that fast on that lake. I'm like What? Then it came out...he was going full throttle DOWNRIVER on a local small river, which also happens to have a 8 mph current at times. So out of curiousity, I ran mine...mine's typically 29.5-29.8 on the right water conditions, at 6200 RPM. GPS upriver averaged 24 mph. Down river, in the current, 36. Stopped, shut motor off and measured current drifting speed-7.8 mph in most areas except the 2 narrow shoals that were a hair over 8.
Listen, folks, I've been that die hard 2 stroke guy. When the 4 stroke stuff started getting sorta popular, back in the 1990's, I said I'd never own one. I worked on one or two Honda's (carbs usually), worked on a Yamaha or two, usually maintenance related (rarely a repair), but continued to use my twin carb 25, and very seldom my 3 cylinder 25. In '06 I believe, I run across a guy who had a F25 on a Grumman 1542, for a great price. Figured I'd buy the whole rig and sell the motor. It sat it's entire life, used less than 1 hour every year to run from the ramp to a duck blind across the river. I got it running and decided I had to try it out. About 3 months later I sold my twin carb 25, no use for it after falling in love with the 4 stroke. And that's what I said too, I didn't want no oil change hassle, no adjustment, belt, weight...but I'm here to tell ya, from my own personal experience, that it's worth the "extra hassle"-which again is so minute that it's ridiculous to even bring it up. It's just one more of BRP's gimmicks so that they can justify their 2 stroke, and many have embraced it. And in my case, it ain't just Yamaha...I also have had a Tohatsu 25 at one point, a Tohatsu 20hp (with power tilt), a Honda 25hp, and for a brief while, had access to a Merc 25 (tohatsu). I like the 3 cylinder motors a little better but it comes at a cost....weight (and lots of it).
Sinkingfast
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Its not about top hp or speed for me. Its about utility. Can I maybe carry an extra person or two without a prop change? According to that video the 2 stroke has better utility. I like area under the hp curve.
I have checked claims of top speed on the prop calculator from members. And yes most are going with the current...
4 stroke outboards are like helicopters...a necessary contraption.
2 stroke outboards are like airplanes...they flow like a bird as Mother Nature intended.
But then again I'd buy a 25hp 170lbs 2 stroke diesel if I could...
What was the op's question anyway..
I have checked claims of top speed on the prop calculator from members. And yes most are going with the current...
4 stroke outboards are like helicopters...a necessary contraption.
2 stroke outboards are like airplanes...they flow like a bird as Mother Nature intended.
But then again I'd buy a 25hp 170lbs 2 stroke diesel if I could...
What was the op's question anyway..
Florida_Native
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jy951 said:
I used to have a 25, when loaded down with 4 people the boat would barely plane. I now have a new 25 Yamaha and it rides the same empty as it does loaded down. The added weight doesn't seem to affect it.
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muddywaders
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Florida Native what was your previous motor and is your new Yamaha the 2017 model?I am considering a four-stroke Yamaha 25 and I am worried it wont have enough torque.I am currently running a 25hp 2-stroke Yamaha on a 14' v-hull that I use on the ocean.When I'm pushing through big waves the boat will slow the revs will drop and I have to throttle up to get back on plane and the fuel consumption goes up.I tried going down to a 10 1/2" prop which helped but now it burns even more fuel.The old 30hp 2-stroke that I previously ran would push through waves at a constant rpm and actually used less fuel than the current 25hp.I want better fuel economy but the performance of the four-stroke Yamaha would have to be as good or better than my current motor.
